Vinnie Colaiuta on
The TrevBeats Show — Episode 4

Full Transcript – Episode 4: Vinnie Colaiuta on Longevity, AI & the Future of Drumming [Music] TREVOR LAWRENCE JR.: Welcome back to another high-impact episode of The TrevBeats Show. I’m your host, Trevor Lawrence Jr., and today we’re operating at the intersection of legacy, innovation, and the next chapter of the music business. First off, today’s guest needs no introduction, but I’m giving him one anyway. We’re joined by one of the most influential drummers walking the planet — the legendary Vinnie Colaiuta. His work defines entire eras — from Zappa, to Sting, to the countless records he’s shaped behind the scenes, to Herbie. Vinnie is a master of adaptation, intention, and technique, and today we’re tapping into all of that. But before we bring him in, we’ve got to address one of the biggest tech moves shaking up the producer world right now: Spotify has officially acquired WhoSampled. If you’re a drummer, a musician, a producer, or anybody who works inside the ecosystem of sampled music, this is not just a headline — it’s a signal. Spotify is absorbing one of the most important databases in music history: the map that documents who sampled what, who flipped what, who covered what, and how songs are connected generation to generation. This acquisition is about visibility. It’s about credits. It’s about transparency. But it’s also about control. On the positive side, more detailed credits mean more recognition for creators, producers, engineers, musicians — everyone who actually makes the records. And with WhoSampled’s data integrated into the platform, your work becomes more discoverable in ways we’ve never had before. But then there’s the other side of the coin. More data means more oversight. More clarity means fewer places to hide those uncleared flips. And with Spotify pushing into AI, all that musical DNA becomes training data, recommendation data, and potentially creative fuel for generative tools. Sound familiar? This is the beginning of a new era where sampling culture, platform power, and AI innovation collide. And that’s why today’s conversation is so important. Because when you sit down with someone like Vinnie — someone who has lived through every technological shift, adapted to every new chapter, and still plays with the curiosity of a beginner — you get perspective. You get wisdom. You get the reality of what it means to navigate a career when the tools, the platforms, and the rules keep changing. So today we’re talking about craft. We’re talking about evolution. We’re talking about how the decisions being made right now — from the Spotify acquisition to the rise of AI in music — will shape the next generation of drummers, producers, and creators. The past, the present, and the future are all in the room today. So let’s get into it. This is Episode 4 with the incomparable Vinnie Colaiuta, and you’re watching The TrevBeats Show. [Music] [Applause] TREVER LAWRENCE JR.: So Spotify just bought WhoSampled.com — one of the internet’s main hubs for tracking samples, covers, remixes, and musical DNA. If you’re a producer with music on Spotify — especially if you touch samples — this move directly impacts how your work is seen, discovered, and yes, possibly policed. Let’s break this down. So what actually happened? Here’s the straight headline: Spotify officially acquired WhoSampled, the community-driven database that maps which songs sampled which records, who covered what, and how tracks connect. And they’re not just buying the name. The full team, the dataset — over a million songs and hundreds of thousands of documented samples and covers — are all now moving inside Spotify’s ecosystem. Spotify is already showing us how they’re going to use this. They’re rolling out a new feature called Song DNA, an interactive window inside the app that shows who collaborated, who sampled what, and every related version in the chain. Now, WhoSampled will stay live for now — same website, same app — just faster moderation, no more display ads, and free mobile access. But the engine powering it? That’s shifting to Spotify. Let’s start with the upside, because for producers who play it straight and actually clear their work, this could be a power play. One: Better credits, better visibility. Spotify says they’re expanding creator credits to include more roles — producers, engineers, writers, everybody. That means your name has a better chance of being visible where fans and industry people actually browse. Two: Better discovery through samples. When WhoSampled’s data lives inside Spotify, a fan can see that somebody sampled you and instantly jump to your original record. If you’ve got catalog, one clever flip could send people down a rabbit hole straight into your world. Three: Built-in research lab. Song DNA basically turns Spotify into a live map of how producers flip ideas. You can trace drum breaks, sample lineages, inspirations — almost like having a sample textbook built right into the platform. For producers who study the craft, that’s a cheat code. But there’s another side to this, and the producer community is already buzzing. First: Sample snitching at scale. WhoSampled has always been public, but when that info becomes native inside the biggest streaming platform on earth, it gets way easier for labels, publishers, or even casual users to spot unclear or borderline samples. Scenes like vaporwave, underground hip-hop, experimental beat culture — they’re worried this could lead to more takedowns and less room to operate in the gray zone. Second: More data means more AI. This fits right into Spotify’s bigger push: AI-powered recommendations, AI-powered analysis, maybe even AI-powered creation. A super-detailed map of who sampled what is perfect training data for generative tools that can mimic eras, styles, and even specific producers — hence the newly circulated term “ethical AI.” That raises big questions about credit, compensation, and control. Third: Platform dependence. If the best sampling tools, credit systems, and music-DNA features all get locked into Spotify, it centralizes power. Producers become more dependent on a platform that also controls royalties, discovery, and policy. That’s something to keep on your radar. Okay, so what do you do with this? Number one: Clean up your credits. Make sure your producer, co-producer, writer, and mixer credits are correct through your distributor. When Spotify rolls out expanded credits and Song DNA, you need that metadata locked in and accurate. Number two: Be intentional with sampling. If you’re sampling, either get your clearance tight, or understand that the old low-profile strategy won’t cover you anymore. This isn’t legal advice — it’s just the reality of a more transparent ecosystem. Number three: Use the tool strategically. When Song DNA drops, treat it like competitive intelligence. See what connects your tracks to others. Understand who’s sampling you. Study how your influences connect. This is information that can shape smarter collabs, better flips, and tighter branding. Bottom line: Spotify buying WhoSampled isn’t just a tech headline. It’s a shift in how sampling culture gets recognized, recorded, and surfaced in real time. For producers, it’s both an opportunity for more visibility and a wake-up call to be more intentional with your craft. This is shaping the next era of how we create, how we clear, and how we get credit. And we’re going to keep tracking it here on The Trev Show. I’m Trevor Lawrence Jr. Like, comment, subscribe. Comment, subscribe. Like, comment, subscribe. Let’s talk about music. [Music sting] TREVER LAWRENCE JR.: Let’s talk about music. [Music] All right, ladies and gentlemen — today is very special. This interview means a great deal to me for a great many reasons. This is not only someone who I consider a friend, but also someone who was heavily influential on my career, my style of playing — and just one of the great contributors to modern-day drumming. So without further ado, I’d like to bring on Mr. Vinnie Colaiuta. What’s up, man? You’re up, you’re up. VINNIE COLAIUTA: Hey man! TREVOR: Thanks so much for coming. VINNIE: I’m good, man. I’m hanging in there. How’s everything been going with you, bro? TREVOR: About the same, about the same. You know, I think everybody knows my whole deal right now, so I’m, you know, treading water and just being grateful, you know. VINNIE: That’s right. TREVOR: I’ve seen you’ve been playing. I’ve seen you’ve been doing some sessions and stuff, man. It’s really inspiring. VINNIE: Yeah. It’s feeling good, thanks. You know, it’s been really great that I can actually record again, because in the studio, if something happens — if my hand starts going numb — I can just say, “You know, I need five. Don’t worry, I’ll give you another one just as good,” right? TREVOR: Right, right. VINNIE: But on a gig, I can’t do that. On a gig, I can’t say to the audience, “Hey, you know, popcorn is great here, trust me. Take some time, go get some popcorn,” you know? TREVOR: [Laughs] Right. VINNIE: And then 15 minutes later, “Did you get your popcorn yet?” TREVOR: [Laughs] I feel you, man. Listen, I’m just glad to see that you’re playing, man. When I was hearing that you weren’t really playing too much, I really felt that. So I’m just happy that you’re on the road to recovery. It’s amazing, bro. On the drum side, it’s like — listen — we all know your history, we all know the work you’ve done, we all know what you brought to the table and how incredibly ahead and advanced you were — and are — even back in the early days with Zappa and stuff. So the question I have — and it’s kind of the through-line of my first season here — is the big elephant in the room: AI. I like to get everybody’s idea about that. Today, as you know, drummers have a lot of responsibility now. A lot of stuff that used to be just “additions” in the early days — like you were a special guy if you had electronics and brought something extra to the table — those are all requirements now. Hybrid setups, knowing how to navigate plugins and DAWs — that’s all kind of required. So what do you think the next years, the next decades look like for studio drumming? Being one of the most recorded guys out here, what does that look like? Is it still going to be around, or what do you think with AI now? VINNIE: Well, just to backtrack a little bit: yeah, all that stuff is a necessity unless you’re out there playing bebop. Then you don’t have to worry about DAWs and stuff — you just play the drums. You don’t need an amp, you don’t need anything. You just play the drums, which is great. It’s great to just think about the music. But that question, Trevor, is a loaded one. It’s a huge issue now. A couple years ago I did an interview with a gentleman named Douglas Rushkoff — he’s an intellectual, a professor, an author, a media thinker. I asked him about AI, and at that time, without misrepresenting him, his take was kind of like, “It’s just a search engine.” But here’s the thing: it’s advancing so fast that we could talk about this three months from now and have a completely different idea about it, because it’s going to throw more curveballs at us. If you look at the rate — you know about Moore’s Law, how the advancement of technology on microchips and what computers are capable of doubles every 18 months or so — AI is beating that by leaps and bounds. I saw something recently where they showed a collage of different AI versions of Will Smith eating spaghetti. The first version looked like a bad cartoon. Then they kept getting better and better until the last one — you’d be hard-pressed to tell it wasn’t real. We’re there now. And I think a lot of us have to think about more than just how it’s going to affect studio drumming. On that note, we don’t have a crystal ball. When drum machines came out, people said, “That’s it, that’s it for drummers.” I kept working for 30 years. You did too. It was just an adjunct. You could hear the difference between a human playing and the human beat. I’ve often said: people can get used to anything — they can — but at the end of the day, human beings resonate with the human beat. We recognize each other’s beat. We feel the humanity in the human beat. We feel it on a visceral level. It’s said that a child will always recognize its mother’s voice — it’s kind of like that. If the day comes when that can be so well emulated by AI… then God help us all. It’s going to get bizarre for everybody, not just drummers. In terms of studio drumming: it’s a whole different animal. That train has left. It’s over. The party’s over — I think I’ll call it a day. I rode the tail end of the comet. Nowadays you have people programming stuff, or they learn to play drums just well enough to play on their songs; or they’re multi-instrumentalists; or there’s a bunch of in-house people all doing it. If someone wants me to do something now, they call me for me. Great. If they want name value, or they want what they think is my sound or my feel, cool. But in terms of going in and just being the “plumber” who gets called to fix the leaky pipe — that’s what many of us did back in the day — that’s over. So I don’t even think AI is the sole reason. Even in its early stages, it was still over at that point. AI is not going to make it easier. People want convenience. They want whatever is easy. All of these devices are making it easier, and you can argue that it’s advanced this and that, but… I can’t even remember phone numbers anymore. Before all of this, I could remember hundreds of them, like a lot of people. TREVOR: You’re not alone there. VINNIE: So people say, “Well, that’s your fault.” What are you talking about? Everybody uses these things now. It’s not my fault. Don’t pin the donkey on me. TREVOR: No, that’s real talk. I feel like the new generation doesn’t even know what the heyday was, because there hasn’t really been an example in over 20 years. The home-studio thing really took off 20–25 years ago. The old days of L.A. or New York studios, with cats passing each other in the hallway, constant sessions, constant union dates — that’s been gone for years. This generation doesn’t really understand that people like you could make millions of dollars just playing drums. It seems impossible to believe now. Once upon a time, there was room for so many people. There was so much work, so many people doing things. So many people had integrity in the music — they really wanted everything to be at a level. Now it’s more like: “What can I get away with?” And it trickles down from the labels. When budgets get depleted, now all of a sudden they can’t afford cartage, they can’t afford this or that. It’s, “Can you play at home?” Then the pandemic happened, which kind of just said, “Okay, this is the new normal.” Coming out of the pandemic, it’s a different time. Our new generation doesn’t think they need to know how to read. It’s just so much, man. VINNIE: Well, I think there are several reasons for that. They don’t know how to read because, contextually, what do they need to read for? They get in bands, learn songs by ear, or they get sent tracks. Unless they’re on a TV show and have to read a bunch of tunes in a row, the context isn’t forcing it. Studio musicians back then had to read. And there’s something to that. There’s something valuable in reading — just like there is in composition, writing stuff out, whether on computer or paper. You’re right — people say, “We have a new economic model now.” How’s that working out for you? I’m not an economist, but I don’t need to be. You can see it. We lived through the experience. People had no idea who was going to be affected: cartage companies, labels, truck drivers — the list goes on. “We don’t need that anymore.” Hey, I’m okay with playing in my pajamas at home just as much as the next guy. But at a certain point, no matter what kind of software I have, sometimes you just want to go into a studio — often, actually — to interact with people. Sometimes you get things sent to you, you send them back, and they say, “Well, I wasn’t really thinking that.” And you’re going, “Okay, my instincts are good… but could it be?” You go back and forth, whereas if you were in the studio, you’d be done in a couple hours. And even before the pandemic, producers would say, “We want you to play on this track,” and one of my pet peeves was when there was no bass on the track. No bass. I’d go in, there’d be all kinds of stuff — guitars, keyboards — but no bass. They’d say, “We just want to get this track down. Nathan’s coming in a couple hours.” I’d say, “Why don’t you bring him in now?” Whatever I play is going to influence what he could have done. He might think, “Oh, he did that on the chorus — okay…” That can only happen when we’re playing together. We’re trained to play accurately together. It’s unbelievable how many high-profile producers now have drunk the Kool-Aid of isolating everything — “We’ve got to do it separate, we’ve got to isolate you.” What? The music has changed. TREVOR: And to me the music has changed in a way where you don’t see — like in the ’80s, which I believe was the heyday, the culmination of everything from the previous decades — there were so many great songs in multiple genres. Now you’re hard-pressed to find even one. Back then, there were great songs across every genre: Michael, Prince, Madonna, Barbra Streisand, all that. Now we just had a number-one country song that was 100% AI, and a number-one gospel song that was 100% AI. What a difference from when you could turn on the radio and get hit after hit. I don’t know if you saw the Yacht Rock documentary — it’s on Hulu — but it takes you back to so many great songs. I’m sure you played on a lot of that stuff. It made me go back and listen to Kenny Loggins again, and hear how those cats were barking on those records. Even Tris on Heart to Heart — crazy. And then you’ve got stuff like Chaka Khan’s records — Arif Mardin, Anthony Jackson — that whole What Cha’ Gonna Do for Me vibe. That entire album? Ridiculous. People don’t know the lineage. I had Mike (Pope) on the other day and he told a story about the Sadowsky bass he used on all the Dre records — that came from Patitucci. Patitucci got the idea of playing six-string from Anthony Jackson. People don’t know that lineage — nothing is really new. It just recycles in different forms. VINNIE: You’re absolutely right, Trev. There are several reasons you want to know the lineage. One is to get a greater understanding of where this stuff came from, so you can see the process in a wider picture. By the way — it’s all process. Everything in life is process. What “destination”? “I’ve arrived now, I’m the guy.” What do you mean? Arrived where? I always want to have something to look forward to. If I feel like, “Well, I’ve done everything there is,” then I’m just going to feel like… what’s the point? Even if I’m playing the same things, I want to enjoy them. There’s an enjoyment I get from it. Not to deviate too far, but understanding lineage and those great songs is huge. First of all, we weren’t shackled by technology using us — we were using it. Now it’s: Did I learn this new thing? Do I need to update this? All this stuff. People say, “There are guys now who can play technically better than any of you could.” Slow down, son. TREVOR: That’s the next question. In our community, we’ve seen a big shift. In earlier generations, everybody had individuality. Now it feels like there’s one dominant style, with little deviations. Some people influence it, some people do it better, but what worries me is now you have people with no interest in diving into any lineage. They go on Instagram, practice with other people’s clips, and just play exactly like them. No foundation. And because of the intrusion of technology in live music, there’s almost no reason to develop that individuality — you’re just learning a show, memorizing a part, playing it exactly the same every night. So instead of reading, the skill now valued is memorization. Here’s my question: Out of all the records you’ve done — we know how crazy your technique is, and your odd-meter stuff — but you were still able to do so much studio work without overplaying. What’s your internal compass for knowing when to put the “things” in, and when to disappear inside the music? What’s your approach to that? VINNIE: My approach has always been: number one, it’s all music to me. A lot of our favorite players were also studio players. Guys like Gadd, Harvey Mason, and even Billy Cobham — Billy could play all over the drums all day long, but then he’d play on those CTI records. You weren’t hearing constant chops — you were hearing Billy lay it down. I was listening to all this stuff. I came to town all about Miles and Mahavishnu — I just wanted to blow. Then I started playing sessions and it was like, “Whoa, easy does it.” I knew I had to “play for the song,” but I really started listening to what the song was saying to me and asking: What does this song want me to play? That’s a skill set you can develop. Back then, we had 16-track, then 24-track. There weren’t two machines locked together yet. It was analog tape, everybody in the room together — rhythm section, orchestra, arranger — all in a room. You had three hours. Maybe one or two songs, whatever the union allowed. You had to get it right. You’re documenting this forever. It’s going on vinyl or tape. There’s no Undo. So not only did you have to read, you had to get an idea of the groove and play the right parts. You had to develop this muscle. We had a thing called a Rolodex — a physical one — but I also had a mental Rolodex: “Okay, what groove is going to work here?” After a while I stopped consciously thinking about it. It would either come to me or it wouldn’t. I learned to trust my knee-jerk, first instinct — my gut reaction about what the right thing to play was. More often than not, it was the right thing. Time was money. Snags started when producers would say, “Could you try this?” and we’d spend three or four hours going in a circle just to come back to what I played in the first take. So I trained myself to develop those instincts. And here’s the other thing: Forget about “he plays what’s right for the song.” Don’t think about drums. Don’t even think about the song. Think about… nothing. Zero. Don’t think. Just listen. And let your body play. Don’t be thinking, “Well, if I do this, then I can do that…” That’s what a lot of playing sounds like now. There’s a lot of information out there, and a lot of it is piecemeal. The contexts are different now. You can go out and play by yourself, develop all kinds of things on the drumset, and people say social media “enabled” it — but people would do that anyway because that’s how we are. The difference is: now you see more people doing it and imitating everybody else. Where’s the me? We’re the media now. Back then we championed originality. If nothing comes to me, I stop and reflect. That happens sometimes, but not often. I remember a session where the producer said, “What are you going to play on this?” and I said, “I don’t hear drums. Sorry.” He said, “If you do, get somebody else, because I don’t hear it.” That’s honest. But that mindset — that’s literally the epitome of listening to what the music is saying. TREVOR: That mindset is humility. Anybody doing records at any level should tell you: “I play for the music.” When people say, “Put your thing on it,” I’m like: What’s my thing? My thing is the music. This is not my record, I’m coming to play on your record. That goes for sound, drum choice, snare choice. You hear J.R. talk about that — we all have multiple snare drums. Navigating that is humility. We’re showing up with multiple drums saying, “I want to be able to serve your music however it needs to be.” Some people say, “Why do you need all those drums?” Because we’re not a plugin. You can’t just turn a switch. We have to take a drum off, tune it, make sure it sounds right under these mics in this room. I feel like the studio thing is an interesting puzzle. I just wanted to get your take on that part because it’s so different now — and the overplaying thing too. I’m seeing more players where time-playing is a chore. Like, “Yeah, I’ll play time so I can get to my show. Where’s my show? Here’s my show.” VINNIE: Let me jump in. You can talk about technical advancement all you want, but unless you write music to accompany that, or that’s your entire composition, at the end of the day, you’re going to be playing time. If it feels good, nothing replaces that. We’re living in an age of sensationalism. Everyone’s fighting for visibility in this attention economy. That breeds: “Okay, watch this.” Everything’s a stunt. It’s not very musical a lot of times. It’s forced. It’s like, “Okay, respect — you put in a lot of hours,” but… musically? It carries over into culture. People would rather listen to cheap gossip than something that could really impact their life in a good way. One more thing: You and I understand letting music talk to us. One advantage we both had is playing with Herbie Hancock — the world’s greatest improviser. When you get on stage with Herbie, you cannot think. You have to have your antenna up. You don’t know what’s going to happen — especially with Lionel and James and the whole band. Anything’s possible. You’ve got to flow with it. You’re not thinking; you’re reacting and contributing. It’s a big conversation. That kind of awareness can be carried into the studio. You go in, they put the song on, and you let the song play you. Playing live is a shared sculpting in real time. In the studio, the song is an incomplete painting, but the mindset is similar: you’re an open book. TREVOR: You’re absolutely right, man. Well, listen, I want to wrap it up with this because I always like to ask this question: Out of all the sessions, live gigs, everything — what’s one moment that stands out? It can be funny, deep, whatever. Just one moment you’ll always remember. VINNIE: I’ve told part of this before, but I’ll share it again. When I first started touring with Herbie, Nathan East was there with me. We did maybe two days of rehearsal and then took off for Europe. We show up in Spain. We get to this theater — 15 minutes before showtime — and I look at Nate and say, “You got a setlist?” He says, “No.” I say, “Me neither. Do you know what we’re going to play?” He says, “No.” Herbie just walks out on stage, sits down, and starts playing by himself. We just jumped in. We had no idea what was going to happen — purely creating. Somewhere in the middle of the gig, he played something that knocked me out so hard that I stopped playing for about four bars and got into a giggle fit. He started unloading, and I’m over there dying — laughing — and then I realize, “Oh no, I’m supposed to be playing!” After the gig, I went to his room and said, “Herbie, man, I’m so sorry.” He goes, “About what?” I said, “You were playing something so incredible that I stopped playing.” He said, “Oh, that’s okay.” To him, that was just my statement. That’s Herbie. TREVOR: That’s so him. I had a similar thing. First gig with him in Cork, Ireland. Robert Glasper and a bunch of people are on the side of the stage. Nerves are high. Management’s there. It’s like, “Is this kid going to work out?” We’re playing “Actual Proof” and he plays something so cold that my filling popped out — literally came out of my mouth while I was chewing gum. At the end of the gig I said, “Herbie, you played something so incredible that my filling popped out.” He said, “Oh… Actual Tooth.” [Laughs] That just became the joke. But honestly, man — aside from sharing that lineage with you, sitting in that same chair — you were a huge influence on me coming up. Back in those days everybody wanted to pit drummers against each other: “Are you a Vinnie guy or a Weckl guy?” I liked both of y’all for different reasons. Some of the ways you influenced me weren’t just about playing — it was the fact that you could jump across genres and not be a one-trick pony. Zappa, Herbie, Sting, film scores, orchestral stuff, pop records — that opened my mind. Harvey Mason was the first person who really helped me. He used to let me use his Gretsch kit before I even had an endorsement — before I even had drums that were truly record-ready. Drum Paradise would bring his burgundy Gretsch to sessions for me. These types of influences imprint on people. With the generation changing, it’s tough, because the next generation might not see any of that firsthand. That’s why conversations like this matter — we’re bridging generations, but showing the similarities too. They can go back through both of our histories and see: “Okay, this guy did stuff from this period on; this guy did stuff from that period…” That context is important so it isn’t completely forgotten. So again, I really appreciate you coming on and us having this conversation. I’d love to do it again one day — a part two for sure. VINNIE: Same here, man. And I want to give this generation credit too. There are people going against the grain of sensationalism, finding new things, new sounds, new textures. Despite all the negative influences, there are people who are going to break through and take the art into a whole new direction — and some of them are already doing it. I have to give them credit. TREVOR: True. Every once in a while, you see people pushing the line in a good way. Again, I just want to say thank you for coming on. It’s been a pleasure. VINNIE: Thanks, Trevor. TREVOR: All good. We have to do this again one day. I’ll be in touch. All right ladies and gentlemen — that is one of my favorites, Vinnie Colaiuta, here on The TrevBeats Show. It’s been a blessing to have this interview. Talk to you soon. TREVOR (CLOSING): Well, that closes out Episode 4 of The TrevBeats Show. Massive shout-out to the iconic Vinnie Colaiuta for elevating the conversation today. Anytime Vinnie speaks on drums, creativity, or the evolution of this industry, it’s a masterclass. I hope this episode challenged your mindset and expanded your toolkit for navigating what’s next. NAMM is fast approaching, so don’t forget to check out The Musician’s Pocket Guide to Endorsements, Volume 3. It’s officially out, and it’s the most future-facing edition yet. We break down modern brand alignment, AI-powered asset creation, post-pandemic endorsement structures, and how to position yourself as a business — not just a musician. You want to level up your NAMM lingo? This is the blueprint. You can grab it now at trevorj.com. Make sure you also check out the full merch line on the site — hoodies, tees, vintage gear for drummers, producers, and fans of the show. You can also tap into my Splice sounds packs using the affiliate links in the description — Boom Bap Drums and Vintage Hip Hop are there right now. When you use those links, it directly supports the platform and helps us scale this content to the next level. As always, if this episode brought you value: like, comment, subscribe, and share it with another creative who needs this insight. Your engagement is the fuel that drives this platform. Join us next week with the inimitable music director to the stars and one of the most recorded keyboard players in history, Mr. Greg Phillinganes. Until then, thanks for watching The Trev Show. We out. Peace. It’s The Trev Show, and we out. [Music] It’s the beat. We out. [Music]