0:00 — Opening Clip: Tiny Desk, AI, and Authenticity David Chiverton: When we did Tiny Desk, just piggybacking off of that, there was something that was in the room that I was just like, there was a need from the people that nothing digital could satisfy. It was literally like they were feeding off how she felt in that moment and how we felt in that moment. It’s evident in the video. It was just like, okay, yeah, we’re playing music. We’re playing some songs they know, maybe one or two they didn’t, but there was a feeling in the room that was so undeniable. Those are the things that give me hope in music. And like I said, AI is kind of taking its place and being more of a tool than world domination. I feel like those are the special things — there’s still a hunger for the real. There’s still a hunger for authenticity. 1:02 — Membership Message Trevor Lawrence Jr.: Real quick, if you’re new here, welcome to The TrevBeats Show. Make sure you subscribe if you want to stick around. And for the regulars, if you ever feel compelled to throw some extra support our way, check out the membership options next to the subscribe button. It’s strictly for those who want to help us do more, but your viewership is supporting us. Now back to the show. 1:38 — Introduction Trevor Lawrence Jr.: All right, ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to another episode of The TrevBeats Show. Today we have yet another powerhouse in the building. He’s a Miami native, a phenomenal drummer, an educator at the University of Miami, and a top-tier producer. He’s shared the stage with legends like Lauryn Hill, Jon Secada, and Leslie Odom Jr., and now he’s holding down the chair with the inimitable Ms. Jill Scott. So ladies and gentlemen, please welcome to the show my brother, David Chiverton. David Chiverton: Yo, thanks so much for having me, man. I’m honored, bro. I’m super honored. Thanks for having me. Trevor: It’s all good, man. You’re out here killing them, brother. I’ve seen you all over the place these days. You’re doing your thing. David: Thank God for the work, bro. I’m just happy to do the work, man. That’s all. 2:28 — Miami Roots and the Gospel Foundation Trevor: So you’re a Miami native, and you’re making your rounds, man. A lot of cats probably come out of Miami, but you just don’t hear it as much as some of the other places like New York or Chicago. So you’re putting it down for your city and your state. David: Man, there’s actually so much talent that comes from here. They all go different places and excel and do great things. Trevor: You don’t hear about the connection as much, but I know it exists. I spent a lot of time out there in the early 2000s because there was a real big scene that had gone over there. I was out there with my boy Seven Aurelius at the time, and we were doing a lot of records out there on Star Island and all that vibe. Miami was crazy, man. David: Yeah, you were on the beach. You were living the high life out there. Trevor: So you grew up playing in the gospel scene in Miami, right? I ask this question to a lot of people because usually you come from one of three schools: the church school, the jazz school, or the rock school. We can pretty much sum up most people’s influences from those three places. So being a guy who came from the church, or has roots in the church, how did that shape how you approach music? And what was that transition like going from that environment to touring with some of these other artists? You probably had to recall some of your skills. How was that transition? 4:09 — Becoming a Versatile Player David: To be honest with you, man, when I initially started to get into school and started playing big band in high school, getting into reading and all these different things, I really started to understand that there was so much more outside of the four walls of the church. The epiphany I had leaving high school and going into college was that I just wanted to be the most versatile player possible. It wasn’t to be better than anybody. I just wanted to make sure I could cover anything, at any time, in any situation. So to answer your question, it was a bit of a weird transition for me because I didn’t know if I was able to do it. Coming from church is a specific thing. It’s a certain energy. It’s a certain level of aggressiveness that we, as drummers, have to have. So to be able to turn the page and deal with dynamics and finesse and timbre — all these different things that do happen in church, but aren’t always celebrated necessarily — was different. Being able to play a tune at a specific volume, like mezzo forte, those are things I had to really get introduced to going into school and playing in a big band. It was tough at first, but once I really got into it, I understood there was a whole world that would open up for me. So I tried my best to embrace all of it, even when it was super tough. I tried to take it all in and understand where it was taking me and how it would change the trajectory of my career if I embraced it. Trevor: Yeah, because first of all, you can’t really win if you don’t fail. Throwing yourself into situations that are hard builds your character and makes you better. I’ve had plenty of things where it’s like, okay, yeah, I can read and all that, but this is another level of reading. I’ve got to step it up real quick to hang with these guys. 6:32 — Leslie Odom Jr. and David’s Musicianship Trevor: Speaking of versatility, several years back I was privileged enough to MD for my bro, Leslie Odom Jr. Then I had to step away during the time when I did the Super Bowl, and my boy Gene Coye came in and did his thing. Then the keyboard player I put there, Chris Cattenhead, who is your boy from back in the day, became MD. He brought you into the group, and bro, all I’ve heard is curtains. I just heard it’s been fashion. I was like, okay, I see what it is. This is a guy who is a real well-rounded cat. It’s not like, “I do this one thing really well.” Your musicianship is one of the things you’re being known for. It’s not just how fast you play. It’s the musicianship, bro — the total package. People respect you out here because of your total package of musicianship. You produce, you write, and you do a lot of that stuff. But you also have a group where you play with two drummers, right? The group is called The SmoOGIES. 7:41 — Playing With Two Drummers in The SmoOGIES Trevor: That’s crazy because I recently went to see Spud, and Justin Brown had a double-drum thing. They were so complimentary. That’s a skill, man, to not step over each other. So when you’re doing two drums from a production standpoint, how do you and the other drummer approach sharing the space without stepping on each other? David: First of all, shout out to my brothers: Harvel Nakundi, who’s the other drummer; Dion Kerr, who’s the bass player; and Vaughn “V-Keys” Henry, who’s the keyboard player. We all collectively produce the music and write together. To answer your question, man: throwing ego out of the window. You cannot approach something of that magnitude with ego. It’s being able to have a certain level of servitude when you walk into any musical situation with that type of band or that type of setup. It’s funny because when we play together, people see two drummers and they’re like, “Oh man, it’s going to be loud.” It’s such an amazing thing for me to see when we play the first song and people look at us like, “Wait, this is cool. This is kind of cool. They’re playing with each other.” I told the guys my objective has always been to make people forget there are two drummers immediately, because I wanted it to feel like just a body of music happening. Harvel is an incredible drummer in his own right. He plays with a lot of different people. Incredible jazz drummer. He plays everything. So he’s totally conscious and aware of his surroundings at all times, and I try my best to do the same thing. The objective is to throw ego out of the window and make music. It’s turned out to be something really cool. Every time we get to play together, it’s exciting because we don’t get to play in that environment all the time. Every time we play is different, but we all keep the same mentality when we get together. 10:11 — Jill Scott’s Tiny Desk and Musical Restraint Trevor: I just caught you on Tiny Desk with Jill. The first thing I know for a fact — I haven’t done it, but I know from seeing it — is that it’s a small space, and there are a whole bunch of open mics in that tiny space. So immediately, when you play drums in that room, you’ve got to dial it back. Man, your dynamics on that were impeccable. There was no conflict with groove, and it didn’t take away from anything. It was just the right thing, the right dynamics in that moment, and support. I think that in itself shows lack of ego, right? Because if you have ego, you’re going to be like, “I don’t care about y’all. I’m about to get mine.” David: Yeah, man. Of course, watching all the Tiny Desk performances before we got there, it was just like, “Oh man, how are we going to achieve this?” But I also felt a sense of confidence walking in there because I’m like, “Man, these are the type of environments we have to play in all the time, especially as jazz musicians.” You’ve got to be able to play where the table right next to you can still speak to each other and hear each other. You’ve got to have that kind of dynamics. It was the same thing when we walked in there. Shout out to Dominique Thomas, the percussionist. He and I definitely sat and pulled it together and said, “All right, cool. Let’s keep it here.” Shout out to the MD, Dwayne Wright, who made sure everything just felt great for Boss Lady. It was great, man. Trevor: That was phenomenal. I’ve got to send a shout out to whoever was playing alto flute. That was killer, bro. David: Oh, Damon. Yeah, man. Damon Bennett. Trevor: That frequency was hitting me. It sounded like a cold synth, like a cold Moog analog lead. That was such a buttery tone. People don’t use that enough in music. David: That whole band, man. Damon, Theljon on trumpet, the singers, Adam Smith on guitar, Eric Wortham on keys — the band was just killing. It happened so fast because you’re like, “All right, man, I hope everybody digs it,” or, “I hope everybody feels what we felt in this room.” To see everybody feel what we felt was really rewarding. Shout out to my guy Om’Mas Keith too, on the record side. Beautiful body of work. That’s really special, man. 12:43 — Chiverton Sessions and Capturing the Energy Trevor: Listen, bro, I think in this day and age, we have to do more than one thing. We can’t just do one thing. We have to know a little bit about production, writing, MDing, whatever it may be. So, Chiverton Sessions, right? David: Chiverton Sessions, yeah. Trevor: I’m into content creation, audio, and all that kind of stuff myself. The question is, what’s your process for tracking and mixing those sessions? Every time I’ve seen you do something, it sounds impeccable. The drums sound impeccable. When you’re doing those types of videos, even for some of your other companies, do you request everything and mix it yourself? How does that usually work when it comes to your tone? David: Specifically with the Chiverton Sessions, which I’m praying I can get back to soon, every situation was very different. The objective for that series was that I literally got together with all of my favorite artists that I like to play with, whether it’s in town here or people abroad, people whose music I love, and I found ways to approach it in a unique way. In terms of approaching the mix, it was really whatever happened that day. I tried my best not to super micromanage the whole situation. I just wanted people to feel the energy coming off the videos. Whatever happened in those sessions happened, and then I would approach the mixes that way. Some of them I mixed myself at home. Some of them I got a great engineer to do. Every situation was different. I wanted to make sure I captured the essence of each artist and what they did, and also show how dope everybody was. That was the main thing. That’s the biggest thing I’m thankful for: I did not overthink any of those sessions. I think I’m about 13 in right now. In every session, I was just like, “Nah, let’s see what it’s going to be, and we’ll go from there.” Trevor: That’s a lot of work. David: It is. It is. Trevor: Organizing stuff like that and making it tangible and bringing it to fruition, that’s a lot of work, man. Congratulations on that. 15:25 — Gear and Current Endorsements Trevor: Now let’s talk a little bit about gear for all the drummers out there. I know what drums you play and everything, but let’s talk about what companies you’re rocking with right now. David: Currently, I’m with DW Drums, Evans Drumheads, Meinl Cymbals, Vic Firth Drumsticks, SlapKlatz dampeners, and Gibraltar Hardware. That pretty much sums it up. I’ve also recently been connecting with a few people — SE Electronics, some Earthworks stuff. Slowly but surely, I’m connecting with a lot of different people. Trevor: Good. That’s super dope. That’s important, man, to have relationships with these companies and the people at these companies. I’ve been with almost all of them except Evans. I’ve been with all the other companies, and they’re just good people. Sometimes people think there’s this whole gangbanging thing with drums and companies. It’s like, man, everybody talks to everybody. Everybody’s friends. I’m not with Meinl anymore, but me and Norbert and Udo have been all over the world and hung out. That’s like family. David: Yeah. Shout out to Chris Brewer at Meinl. Trevor: Chris, yeah. David: That was definitely one of the best endorsements I’ve ever had. I hope I don’t sound super biased saying this, but Chris was very much — how do I say this politely? — a skeptic about your reason for wanting to play the product or play the gear. I love that because he had to really get to know who I was, what I was doing, and the reason why I wanted to play the cymbals. It forced me to really think about why I wanted to play this gear. It also made me look at everything else I’m playing. I want to believe in what I’m playing. Trevor: That’s important. First and foremost. We had business back then, and they were one of the first people to take a chance. We did some cool stuff together with the Stadium Ride and all that. Things happen how they happen, and that’s cool, but it still doesn’t mean there’s shade. Relationships change all the time. So shout out to all of them over there. And of course, shout out to our family at DW. We love them. Jewel, Steve, Scott, the whole crew, Louie, Garrison — that family. Those people are day ones, and they work for their artists and with their artists. It’s a real great family. 18:27 — Teaching Real-World Lessons at University of Miami Trevor: Now, when it comes to some of the things that happen over the course of a career to keep the balance, you’ve done adjunct professor work at the Frost School of Music at University of Miami, but you also used to play back in the day at Santos Miami, right? What’s the biggest real-world lesson you try to pass on to your students since you’ve paid your dues? What’s the biggest thing you let them know that they’re probably not going to find in a textbook? David: It’s imperative that you don’t box yourself in. I’ve found a lot of students who are incredible at jazz, and that’s what they want to play, which is awesome. But if you want to eat, if you want to pay your bills, you’ve got to be able to pivot. That’s been a huge thing, especially at Frost. I’ve had to take a few people aside and say, “Hey, you have some extremely amazing talent, but you need to understand what’s out there waiting.” It’s not just about your talent. It’s about your integrity. You got to class five minutes late today. That means you’re going to miss lobby call. You didn’t have your lesson ready for me today. That means you’re not going to learn records and be ready for rehearsal when the artist walks in. These are things you’ve got to think about. You might be thinking, “Oh, it’s just cool.” I’m like, “No, this is the real deal.” If you’re doing it in here, you’re definitely going to do it out there. The difference is, out there, they’re just going to fire you. Nobody’s going to pull you to the side and say, “Yo, get it together.” Somebody is already on a flight to take your spot. So I had to pull a couple people to the side — people I knew were seriously considering doing this for a living — and say, “Hey, tighten up. You’ve got to really embrace this process and this journey while you’re at school, because when you leave, it gets real.” Trevor: Yep. And they’re paying to go to school. So imagine, you’re paying, but you’re still not on time and doing your thing. Why would someone want to pay you to bring that same energy? David: That’s why I said, you’re telling me everything I need to know about what you’re going to do when you get out there. I see you’re not coming to class on time? Cool. You’re not going to be on time for the gig. Trevor: Exactly. The best players are one missed lobby call away from being at the house. I don’t care how great you play. Try that on the road and hold up a bus, or make it so the bus driver’s hours get screwed up. There are all these little trickle effects that happen when you’re irresponsible on the road and you come late. It throws everything off. At that point, it doesn’t matter how great you play. David: Yeah. Time is money because you’re literally messing up everybody’s money. 21:48 — The Hustle Missing From Music School Trevor: It’s good that they have real-world people like you telling them real stuff, because sometimes in school, reality gets lost. People are taught things that are not even really things they’re going to have to apply. Unfortunately, we still see this happening in 2026. It’s mind-boggling that we still have outdated information being taught to generations of kids. But moving forward with people like you, it’s important that they know the real stuff they’re going to need. Every time I see a kid come out of school or a graduate, it’s like, “Okay, now what am I going to do?” Or when they’re in school, there’s no hustle. It’s like, man, you’re in school with access to a studio and the film school right across the way. You mean to tell me you’re not in here making loops to give to your composer friends? The mentality is not there for hustling. David: That’s a good word. It’s very absent in school nowadays. The hustle is absent. Cats are just sitting there waiting for people to hand it to them. That’s not how life works. I try my best not to walk into class and just be the old head beating up on the kids. But thankfully, I’ve been able to tour while teaching at UM, and the one thing that got more respect from a lot of the students was knowing that I was actually doing this right now. So I would come back with actual scenarios and say, “Yo, this happened this weekend. What would you guys have done?” You don’t really talk about different scenarios and ways to deal with real-life situations. Sometimes it was real situations I had to bring up so they could see, “Listen, guys, this is happening in real time right now.” Drummers, if you don’t know how to play with a click, I don’t know what to tell you. Trevor: Yeah. David: For real. That’s the first thing that’s happening when you walk out of here. Trevor: Exactly. Everything is tracks. It’s not going back. I came up at the end of the complete analog era, when you started seeing manual sequences being played. But when it morphed into DAWs, it was never going back. There’s always going to be a click because everything has to be in sync. That’s like learning a paradiddle now. And I think learning a DAW is like learning a paradiddle now. Pick one, but know one. How do you play an instrument and not know how to get yourself recorded? You’re not always going to have an engineer. 24:49 — Music Education and Real Experience Trevor: I’m glad you said that because music is one of the only disciplines where you can go to school and be taught by people who have never done it. You’re not going to see that in medical. You’re not going to see that in law. You’re not going to see that in pretty much any other discipline. But in music, you can have people who went to school to be teachers of music, but never really did music. At a certain point, it’s like the blind leading the blind. I think now, with social media being so rich with free information, the foot is starting to get put on the neck of that mentality. Students are like, “Man, I’m not about to pay you. You’ve never done it. I can just go on YouTube and look at somebody who’s cracking.” And they’re not wrong. So it’s a good thing when schools are smart enough to hire people like you. 25:47 — How Production Changed David’s Drumming Trevor: Now you’re a producer. You’re not just a drummer. That means you’ve sat on the other side of being a drummer. So now that you’re a producer, how do you think that has affected your drummer side? Since you know what it feels like to be on the other side, how has your approach changed as a drummer? David: You’ve heard the saying, “You can’t see the forest for the trees.” It made me zoom out a lot in terms of being intentional about what I decide to play in any situation. Looking at the big picture. I’m thankful that I’m starting to take production, songwriting, and all these different things more seriously because it’s totally changing my playing. Things I wasn’t considering before, I look at first now. The timbre of the drums, the type of cymbals — we looked at that stuff before, but now it’s like legit, that could be the one component that offsets everything. “Oh man, I need a ride that’s a little more pingy in this one spot.” These are things I’m learning are super important to producing a record or creating moments in a song. “Hey, just hit that one time in that spot,” and that moved everything to where it needed to be. Production has definitely been rewarding in that sense. I feel like I’m just starting out on that journey seriously. I put out a song maybe two years ago, and I’ve been writing a lot more lately. I’m excited to see how much revelation I can get about music, composition, structuring moments, and things like that. It’s a beautiful thing. Production is amazing when you can see the whole picture versus just your one part. Trevor: Yeah. Once you develop that and start thinking like that, you start doing things to help the producer, even as a drummer. For me, what I started doing some years ago — it was one specific client at first, then I started doing it all the time for the majority of record stuff — is I don’t play the cymbals. I overdub them. All crashes and rides are overdubbed. The reason is, first, it allows you to get a more focused drum sound. You don’t have to change things in different sections because of the bleed from the crash. Then you can adjust that overhead crash sound and ride sound. The record goes through so many stages, and when you’re playing on it, there might be all kinds of variables that happen after you. If that’s baked in, you lose options. So for the things where it makes sense, I think it’s cool. That’s the producer mind: What would I like? I’d like to have more flexibility between that relationship of drums and crashes. That’s what I started doing. When you’re playing, I’m sure that’s coming out of your playing. People who haven’t dived into the other side should get away from the drums sometimes and look at music from other vantage points. It’ll enhance your drumming. It’ll make you a better drummer. 29:46 — Momentum, Family, and Financial Literacy Trevor: We all know how things can be wishy-washy, with ups and downs. This whole thing is about momentum. Between touring, educating, and producing, how do you keep it moving forward? Things fall on each other. There’s a big gap, and then suddenly everything wants to happen at the same time. It’s frustrating. How do you navigate that? David: Man, thank God for my beautiful wife. She’s a huge component to anything successful that I’m doing. Her support, my family, my mother and father-in-law, my son — having that village that supports me. They make sure when I have something to do, they’re always covering me and making sure I have everything I need. Those gaps and moments of uncertainty are the moments I try my best to prepare for when things are at a high. We can get into the whole financial thing — the importance of saving and putting money up, making sure investments are happening, or things that can continue moving while you’re not working. It’s imperative to understand how money works and how to really manage your family life, your books, and all these different things. All of those things help me keep forward motion in my career and life. My family is a huge part of that. Also, paying attention to everything that’s coming in — money-wise and opportunity-wise — and making sure it all makes sense. Sometimes, in the last couple of years, I’ve had to do away with things that don’t make sense anymore. It’s nothing against hundred-dollar gigs or different places like that. Do them when you want to do them, not because you have to. That’s been another thing: trying my best to make sure things make sense and manage everything I have on my plate. 32:08 — Knowing Your Worth Trevor: This is also a profession where there are no real classifications. Conceivably, you could do those gigs your whole life if you don’t say no and start making your value go up. There’s always someone willing to do it for nothing or for the experience. So it’s up to us to maintain that trajectory upward. I know a lot of people who do huge things and never stop gigging locally, then wonder why they’re at a wall or a ceiling. It’s like, you didn’t realize your worth. It’s also interesting that, to this day, I’ve never heard of a music school giving a financial literacy class specifically for musicians. There should be one curated for musicians because it’s different from people who work nine-to-five and have steady paychecks. Musicians have money coming from here, there, mailbox money, this and that. It’s not really taught. Then people get out here, get one gig, and when it’s over, everything is bad. David: Man, not to cut you off, but I really had a moment a few years back where I learned that a few no’s changed the trajectory of my career. The unfortunate thing was that a few of those no’s had to be for people I’d been working with for years. It was tough because it was like, “Listen, I understand my worth.” I struggled with that all my life because “knowing your worth” can come off as arrogant. But for me, the moment I realized that what we do is also a transactional industry, it changed everything. You’re asking me to provide a service. You’re asking me to execute. That means I should be compensated according to what you’re asking me to do. Once I had that epiphany, it changed everything. It helped me say no without any malice in my heart. It was just, “Hey, I appreciate it. If you can’t do this, maybe next time.” The more I started to do that, I watched God open doors for me. It was like, “All right, now that you understand how much more you’re worth, certain doors will start to open for you.” Trevor: Certain people aren’t going to pick up the phone anymore until they come correct either. David: Right. That’s real talk. Trevor: Sometimes it is hard because you might start with someone, but then you go to a different place. It feels weird to suddenly be like, “Yesterday’s price is not today’s price.” But that’s just how it works. People should respect that if they respect you. They’ll either acquiesce or they won’t. David: That’s the thing, because then you really see who respects you and what you do. Trevor: Exactly. Now I see what it actually is. 35:57 — The Big Elephant in the Room: AI Trevor: Hold on, man. Can you hear that? It’s the big elephant in the room: AI. I want to talk to you about that because we ask this question on every show. We know it’s here to stay. It’s not going anywhere. It doesn’t have to just be music. It can also be other ways people are using it in their lives. But what’s your thought about this AI period we’re living through — or really, that’s just starting? David: Honestly, man, I believe AI is a tool. I don’t think it has to be a way of life, and it doesn’t have to be the end of what we do. I think it’s a tool that can be used for good. I also feel — and this is something I’ve been saying to my buddies — that AI is going to help usher in a new era of love for real players, real singers, and real musicians. AI is getting extremely amazing with the things it’s able to achieve, but I also feel like it’s going to bring a lot more value back to being in a room watching somebody actually play the instrument. I honestly feel that in my heart. People will start to want to pay money again and support feeling the energy in the room. That’s one thing AI can’t do. AI is great. It’s incredible digitally. The songs I hear on IG — it’s mind-blowing how AI is able to put this stuff together. But somebody being able to be in a room with an artist and feel the energy, or feel a musician’s energy, AI can’t do that. The more we embrace that and understand that it can never be taken away from us, we’ll be okay. Then we understand that AI has its place. It’s a tool, but it’s not going to change who we are and what we bring to the table. It can if you let it, if you’re thinking like that. But I feel like it’s going to bring value back to the musician, the player, the singer, the artist. I think it’s going to bring that much more value to people being able to see someone actually play. I feel like 10 years from now, people are going to be in awe of somebody who can actually sit and play the violin. Like, “Wait, you actually learned how to play? Let me see you do it.” “You can actually play the drums? Seriously?” Trevor: Yeah, that’s true. Right now, it’s the initial shock and the initial insertion of it into culture and music and everything else. After a while, it’ll start having its own place, and the other people — the real players — will be shining. 39:23 — Tiny Desk and the Hunger for Real Music David: Even playing with the amazing Jill Scott, which I’m extremely blessed to be a part of that band now, when we did Tiny Desk, there was something in the room that I was just like, “There is a need from the people that nothing digital could satisfy.” They were feeding off how she felt in that moment and how we felt in that moment. It’s evident in the video. It was like, okay, yeah, we’re playing music. We’re playing some songs they know, maybe one or two they didn’t, but there was a feeling in the room that was undeniable. Those are the things that give me hope in music. Like I said, AI taking its place and being more of a tool than world domination. There’s still a hunger for the real. There’s a hunger for authenticity. Trevor: We’re seeing big evidence of that because there’s a real resurgence of jazz happening right now. I think it’s starting to kick off this reaction. It’s funny because change happens so slowly that you don’t think about how much has changed. Listening to music now, when you go back and listen to old records, it’s such a different experience. We’ve gotten used to so many fast food things, AI things, and things we don’t even know. When you go back and listen to an old classic like A Love Supreme, or I go listen to Love Power Peace, the live James Brown recording from 1971 at the Olympia in Paris — one of the most ridiculous live recordings I’ve ever heard — it just makes it a notch higher. I think that’s what’s naturally going to happen. It’s happening with live music, jazz, R&B. Remember, we lost R&B. R&B went away. There used to be groups, relationships, and all of that. Then it just went away. It went from extreme hip-hop to extreme trap and vulgar hip-hop. The love went away. I feel like we’re starting to see people say— David: It’s bubbling again, man. Trevor: It’s bubbling. David: We just have to trust in the gifts God has given us and understand that no computer can do what we can do. I humbly say that. We’ve just got to trust that when we all get in the room together, it’s going to be all right. We’re going to feel the feelings we need. I told you, at Tiny Desk, I felt a hunger in the room. It was like, “Yo, what is so heavy in here?” Yeah, there are people listening to music, but it was hunger. I feel like players and musicians — it’s like tasting food again. You’ve been eating the same thing every day, but then you taste something you’ve never tasted before, and you remember that. You remember how it made you feel. Trevor: That’s a great analogy, man. We’ve been doing fast food, and as soon as somebody drops a Michelin dish, it’s like, “Oh my goodness. I can’t believe I was eating this other stuff all this time.” I think we’re starting to see that. It’s beautiful for all the people pushing the line in the jazz world. There’s a lot of experimentation happening. It’s a great feeling. 43:17 — David’s Future Goals Trevor: Let’s get into the future, man. Where do you see yourself in the next five years from the trajectory you’re on now? What are your goals? What are you trying to do? David: Honestly, I’ve had a heart over the last few years to possibly get into opening up an academy. I don’t know how that looks yet, but touching on a lot of the things you’re talking about — the financials and things people don’t really talk about in school — really preparing a generation for reality and where things are headed. I feel like I have a heart, and I’m in the process of trying to develop some things this year. I really want to embrace the youth a lot more because I feel like, in a lot of instances, they’re doing amazing things, but sometimes they’re fending for themselves. They don’t have a lot of information that can help them move forward. I really want to dig into that side, whether it’s an academy or being more of a clinician. I really want to get into the clinician side. You and I were blessed to do PASIC last year together, so that was epic. Even watching you on stage was like, “Yeah, I can’t believe I’m here.” Trevor: Oh, thank you, man. David: We were pushing with the electronics and all that. It was great. I say that because I want to be able to say to the guys and the people from the areas I come from, “Yo, we can get there. We can be taken seriously.” I feel like it’s imperative. I can’t just be like, “Yo, man, they ain’t doing this.” Who is “they”? I am they. Trevor: “I am they” should be a T-shirt, bro. David: I am they, bro. So let’s get it. Let’s put it together instead of saying what they didn’t do. I’m going to do it. Or like-minded people, we’re going to get together and do it. Trevor: I’m going to add you to a thread. We’ll get offline. There’s a thread of some other drummers, and we have some conversations. 45:44 — Endorsements and The Musician’s Pocket Guide Trevor: A couple of years ago, I wrote a book about endorsements because I went to the NAMM Show 30 years in a row. I was very into that culture and that world and developing relationships with companies, and it was successful. I was trying to give a blueprint on how I did that, so I started writing these books, The Musician’s Pocket Guide to Endorsements. It’s been like 12 or 13 years since the first edition, and I just released the third edition right before NAMM this year. It’s an ebook, and I just want people to be able to brush up on what’s really happening behind the scenes. Speaking of that, you’ve done all these deals for yourself. How did you go about dealing with endorsements? I know a lot of times people approach you, and that’s fine, but you still have to do some kind of deal and figure out how you want to present yourself to them, and how you want to be presented by them. How do you navigate endorsements? David: I’ve made weird decisions in terms of what I thought reps wanted, trying to go above and beyond with tagging and all these different things. It’s not until you actually sit and speak to some of these reps and understand how budgets work for the companies — how they have to get budgets approved at the top of the year and all the things that play a huge part in signings — that you really understand. I understood that one of the biggest things I needed to be was an asset to any company I decided to endorse. It wasn’t about me just playing free gear. It wasn’t about me just tagging them in everything I’m doing. It’s about, “How am I going to push this product forward?” Not in a corny way, but being a great asset to whatever company you’re endorsing. It really helped me over the years. I made a bunch of weird mistakes with over-tagging, reaching out to reps a million times, and all these different things. One day — and I have to shout him out because he’s a huge reason I’ve learned so much about companies — my big brother Q Robinson, who’s an amazing player, but also a guru when it comes to companies, understanding how to have conversations with companies, reps, and different things like that. He has been, and still is, a huge reason why I’ve been able to achieve certain deals with certain companies. I’m continuing to learn every day. Also, being patient is a big thing about endorsements. Just saying you’re playing somebody’s gear or repping somebody’s company is one thing, but the patience aspect of building equity in a company is amazing. You can really start to gain relationships with these companies so that anywhere in the world you can play this gear and make sure everything is taken care of. I had to understand that being on the road and making sure you can get the gear on the road is a major thing about endorsements that I didn’t fully understand until I really got in the game heavy. You need to be with companies that can support what it is you’re doing. Not just repping them. It also has to be give and take. There has to be a level of relationship between you and the company where it’s not one-sided. Reciprocity has to be there. 49:56 — There’s No Such Thing as Free Gear Trevor: I think people don’t understand, and I talk about this all the time, that there’s no such thing as free gear unless you’re saying you’re not worth anything. It’s always a give and take. The reason they’re providing you with no-cost gear — which is expensed in some form or another, because there’s no such thing as free anything — is because that falls under a certain budget. That’s promotional. They’re assuming and hoping that your name value, your association, will bring eyes to the product. That’s what this is about. David: You summed up the whole thing. Trevor: Especially now, with budgets being so low, there’s probably more backline than ever because people can’t afford to take drums out and ship drums. I just went through a situation where, for a specific situation, they informed me, “We can’t sustain that anymore. After this one, we’re just going to have to do backline.” That’s a major thing. These things happen. You’ve got to get with a company that will be able to have stuff in different places. If you get with one of these boutique companies — no shade — but if it’s not a certain level of work, they’re not going to have drums there. As long as they’re cool with that, that’s one thing, but then that defeats the purpose of you using what you do to promote them. David: That’s why I said I had to really understand when I got out there and started touring what I needed as an endorsee. Like you said, you can endorse a boutique company, and again, there’s nothing against that. But it’s like, “Hey, I’m going to be in Tokyo. You guys have gear there?” If they don’t, you’ve got to understand how this whole thing works. You have to figure out what you need for everything you’re doing. Trevor: One thing I can tell you: you’re with DW, and so am I. They are everywhere in the world. David: Legit. Trevor: Even in the smallest part of the area. It might be older, but they’re going to have it. David: Yeah, you might get the black badge, the old DW look. Trevor: But you’re right. They’re everywhere in the world. David: That was big for me because I was with the amazing Gretsch Drums first. That was my first drum endorsement, and I still absolutely love those drums, but I understood where I was going. I ran into a bunch of things. I’m sure things have drastically changed with Gretsch now, but back in the day when I was there, it was tough. I’d be in Brazil somewhere and they’d be like, “Yeah, we don’t have Gretsch.” Trevor: It’s different now. There’s been a big shift there, so shout out to them. There have been some great personnel changes that hopefully will work for the better. But yeah, I agree. That’s a big thing. The big three are pretty much always going to be everywhere: DW, Pearl, Yamaha, and maybe Ludwig as the fourth. You can pretty much count on those being in every market. There’s something to be said about that when you’re working. Somebody else on my show said, “The tools don’t matter if you ain’t working. People who don’t work don’t use tools. So if somebody’s complaining about new tools, it’s probably an indication that they don’t work.” I thought that was brilliant. We were talking about AI, but I think it carries over to everything. David: Every day, bro. That’s legit. 53:58 — Advice to a 13-Year-Old Musician at NAMM Trevor: There’s a 13-year-old kid right now going to the NAMM Show, trying to get into the business. What is David Chiverton telling them right now? David: Cultivate the craft, not the hype. Spend time cultivating what it is you want to do as a player, musician, producer, or composer. Get into the craft. All that other stuff will come later. You want to be in a place where you can understand what all of that means when it comes. A lot of times, we get endorsements and all these different things before we’re ready. I can speak for myself. I made a bunch of mistakes not understanding how the business works, and I’m so thankful to be on the other side of that now. I understand that who I am as a musician and artist has to be the number one reason I’m looking to gain partnerships with companies. It’s not because of ego. It’s not because of the hype. It’s literally because these are the things I like playing. These are the things I believe in. These are the things I need when I’m on the road to help me do my job. Understanding the simplicity in that is something I didn’t know early on. You might be seeking a company — whether boutique or bigger — just so you can see your name on the website or see your picture. But it’s so much bigger than that, man. The other thing is, it can be so much more rewarding than that. When you really gain a partnership and they invest in you, they take you seriously. To be recommended for PASIC by DW was a huge honor. For them to say, “We choose you to represent us alongside people like yourself,” that was a full-circle moment. It meant I was on a trajectory I’d always wanted to be on — being taken seriously as an artist and knowing I have something to say. So I would say: cultivate the gift. Cultivate what it is you want to do versus the hype. The hype is just hype. It’s not real. It’ll come and go. You’ll get people who are all in favor, and you’ll get people who say, “Yeah, whatever.” But you don’t control either of those things. Why try to deal with something you can’t control? The thing you can control is your skill level and your work ethic. Trevor: That’s wise words, man. 57:06 — Closing Remarks Trevor: Ladies and gentlemen, this is a man of a lot of wise words, and a man of wise drum dynamics, fills, pockets, and a whole bunch of wise stuff coming from Mr. David Chiverton. Thank you so much for being on The TrevBeats Show, man. It’s an honor to have you, bro. The trajectory of your career is just beginning, and all I’m seeing is one direction. I can’t wait to see where you are in the next five, ten, one, three years. It’s going to be an amazing career to watch. I appreciate you coming and speaking to me at this time. David: Yeah, and I’ve got to give you your flowers, man. You’ve been in this game for a long time, and I just want you to know you’re doing amazing things. You’re informing us out here. Even things we didn’t see coming, you were one of the first guys to say, “Yo, y’all check this out in the next year,” and it happened just the way you said. So I would say to you, man, continue to not just be the amazing musician you are, but you’re a journalist, man. You’re somebody who is seriously paying attention to our surroundings, and we appreciate you. If you don’t hear that enough, thank you. Keep going. Trevor: I’ll take it from the old classic American film, New Jack City: We all we got. David: Yeah. We all we got. Trevor: David Chiverton, y’all. All his information, social media, and links will be down in the description. We’ll see y’all on the next TrevBeats Show. 58:56 — Outro Trevor: All right, David, thank you so much for dropping all this knowledge today. It’s been an absolute masterclass. For everyone watching, make sure you follow David, check out his work with The SmoOGIES, and definitely go see him live on tour with Jill Scott. That’s going to do it for today’s episode of The TrevBeats Show. Before you head out, do me a huge favor and smash that like button. Drop a comment down below letting us know your favorite takeaway from today’s interview. And if you haven’t already, hit subscribe so you never miss another episode. Also, head over to the TrevBeats merch store. The link is right down there in the description to grab the latest gear and support the channel. And remember, we have a membership tier, Backstage, that allows you to get some exclusive things and show your support for the channel a little bit more. We really appreciate everybody for watching. Keep creating. Keep pushing. And until the next one, go be great. The TrevBeats Show. We out.