Terreon "Tank" Gully Interviewon
The TrevBeats Show 

0:00 — Cold Open Instagram is not music. Period. Social media is not music. You know? Yeah. Like I love to hear like, like one of the best things I love is this Makossa stuff from, from Cameroon. And these drummers are just swinging and grooving so hard. Like I'm right, producing the record. And like I've made an arrangement based off the group. Like to me, I was always more impressed and more moved by like something slick that you, that I heard Vinnie Colaiuta do. You know, it wasn't like, but it was like something musically creative. I was always more attractive to that. I've never been attracted to the stick spinning or the flash, I'm a shy person. So I want less attention as possible. So that was never my thing. But social media, that's all it's about. It's me, me, me, me, me. And that's great, but if that's what they want to do. And they can do clinics all over the world and have the oohs and ahs. But I like to move people. I want my nieces and nephews to come to the concert and be able to understand and appreciate the music. And I want people to feel and be singing. So I think now is just two completely things. I think different things. If we were just talking about music, definitely time, groove, feel, phrasing, without a doubt. Real quick, if you're new here, welcome to The TrevBeats Show. Hit subscribe so we can keep building together. And to my regulars who show up every time, I see you. And your viewership means everything. If you ever want to help fuel this channel so we can do even bigger things, you can grab some fresh gear from the merch store below or jump into the backstage membership next to the subscribe button. Now back to the show. The TrevBeats Show, The TrevBeats Show. All right, everybody, welcome back to The TrevBeats Show. 2:03 — Meet Terreon "Tank" Gully So if you know pocket, you know jazz, you just know drumming in general, then you know my guest. He's a Grammy award-winning drummer, producer, composer, and one of the most respected voices behind the kit in the game. I've known him for a long time, and he's done everything from holding down the throne with Christian McBride, Stefon Harris & Blackout, And most recently, John Beasley's Unlimited Miles, Dianne Reeves for years, and Kurt Elling. And he's also brought his sound to hip hop, of course jazz. He just does it all. Ladies and gentlemen, Terreon Tank Gully. What's up, bro? Yo, stadium introduction. I love it. That's the word. Yeah, man. So first of all, thank you for coming on, bro. We appreciate you, man. Thanks for having me, man. Yeah, you're a busy man, so I'm glad we were able to make it happen. 3:04 — Two Million Miles on Delta And speaking of that, I heard a milestone when we were last together, and somebody mentioned it. What's that airline milestone that you hold? Oh, man, two million miles in. Oh, man, two million? What airline is it? Delta. Wild, bro. Two million miles is wild. That means you have been working, man. Hey, man. I tell people they might not see me online, but I'm doing some other stuff. You know what, bro? And I get it. It's like you're out here working, and that's just what it is, making a contribution. And that's a big part of my show and my guests. It's like I'm only interested in people that are contributing or have contributed. So once again, thank you for coming. So I met you in New York years ago. What year is that probably? 98, well 98 was when I moved to New York. Yeah, so you had just got there and that's when I used to stay with, when I went to New York I had stayed with my bro, Teodross Avery and Kenyatta Beasley and Randall Willis back in the day, man. I'm Brooklyn, it's crazy times, bro. 4:13 — Hauling Drums Through New York Remember when we had that conversation and me being from LA, I was like, man, how do y'all move around drums in New York? Cause nobody drives. How do y'all get around drums? Exactly. For most people it was like this, man, I remember vividly, I was doing a trio gig with Matthew Garrison and this piano player (no name is said; 'Keanu' is a whisper artifact) that used to play with Betty Carter. I can't think of his name right now. But it was like one of my first gig and there was at the Union City Brunch, which is in like 14th street. It's one of the most Killin' restaurants in the city. I'm like, I had my new fresh Baronage Woodhoo kit, took it on the train. When I take that joke on the train, I had to go up and down like twice. I couldn't do it in one thing. That was the first and only time I ever carried my drums on the train in New York. And ever since then, it was car service only. Yeah, man. Because I just like being in LA, I'd be like, how do y'all navigate that, bro? Nah. And you know, it ain't like LA, where we got Cartage in New York. You only had Cartages for you somebody like Steve Gadd. You know what I mean? Everybody else, you're car service. Fortunately, it's loud. Most of the joints got drums. But back then, nah, you had to bring your own drums. And remember, y'all, this is pre-Uber, not even close. No, exactly. Lincoln town cars. Cab and car service. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. So everybody had their guy. Right, exactly. Right. I'll get you a little something. Because everybody not letting you put no drums and uprights in their car. You know? What a difference. That's such a, that's so crazy, man. It's such a thing just to get to a gig. Then imagine for us, it's like, didn't you guys do that in the winter time? Oh no, man. No. No. They coined it right when they say you pay your dues. Yeah, New York, you definitely really pay your dues for sure, for sure. So anyway, I'll edit this in. So you have one of the most respected and deepest 6:02 — From Church to Jazz in East St. Louis and most relaxed pockets, no matter what you're playing. And you came from Atlanta and you went to the scene in New York. So when you got to New York, what was one of the moments that shifted how you kind of conceptualized time? Like, did you get to New York and say, oh, while they play, it's a little different thing here. Like, how did that conversion work from Atlanta? Man, actually, it was pre-New York. I like to say, like I was introduced to jazz when I was in high school. I came from church and I always say I came from pre-pro to church. I came from church when it was organ and maybe some dudes clapping and then organ and drum set, you know? So like learning how to keep time, understanding the power of a chord progression, understand the connection between the lyrics and the harmony, you know, and how that can shift and move people, like learning to listen. That started in the church. But then I went to my high school under Mr. Carter in East St. Louis, introduced me to Duke Ellington and Count Basie, you know, and we would start the day off by listening to them and trying to swing as hard as they did. And that's where my foundation of jazz started. And then after that, I went to the University of Houston under the direction of Marvin Sparks. He got me as a high school student. He was like, man, you should come down here to Houston with me. And actually, this is a funny story. I had scholarships to Berklee, Bethune- Cookman, Jackson State, a bunch of different schools. But I didn't know where I wanted to go. I was just playing drums in high school. And I'll never forget, I came home one day from after Bible class. And my mother was like, oh, you're going to school in Houston in two weeks. I'm like, all right, you know, that's how it was, bro. But like, Marvin Sparks, I just got the job at the University of Houston and he brought me down as his student. And there in Houston, you know, I got there was Jeremy Gaddy, Mark Simmons, you know, Chris Dave. So we all was hanging tight. Like before they called it drum sheds, man, we were setting up drums in our in rehearsal hall, you know, going in, you know, just shedding and sharing, you know. So I've known those guys since 1990. But one of the biggest things that happened while I was there, 8:26 — Disneyland, Tain Watts and Learning to Listen Sparks made me audition for this Disneyland band. Bro, so I got the Disneyland band in 92. And it was kind of cheesy, bro. I had the red, white, and blue polyester stuff playing bass drum. But the dope thing was, this was under Ron McCurdy, the dope thing was we got to sit down and play jazz for like 15 minutes, right? But I was standing in an apartment with roommates from Berklee, North Texas, Manhattan School, and the New School. And they were all horn players, and I was the only rhythm section player. And what we would do was play poker and listen to each and I was the only rhythm section player. And what we would do was play poker and listen to each other's record collection. I didn't have a record collection. I'm coming from East St. Louis from from the hood, I'm like, man, these guys got collections. So we playing poker and we listening to the music and all of these cats are singing along, knowing all of solo. I was like, what kind of magic is going on right now? How do they know that? So like something clicked in my mind was like, oh, this is a level of listening that I hadn't done. So to reinforce that, one of the cool things with the Disney program, they took us all around, gave us access to things that you normally would never have. So one of those things was when we went to the Jay Leno show when Branford was there and Tain was in the band. So I met Tain, talked to him, asked him, man, how did you learn how to play jazz? And he's like, because I knew he studied classical, I studied classical at the university. He's like, man, check out these records. And he wrote down the drummer, the artist, the record label and the year, like five different records. And I was like, man, I got four records and I couldn't tell you that, you know, but off the top of his head, he did that. And it was like some Tony, some Elvin, you know, some Roy Haynes. I don't know the specific records I have on my, I kept it on the sheet of paper that he wrote and I had it in the jar for the longest. And I know I have it somewhere and I've been looking for it ever since. But, you know, so I got those records and it somewhere and I've been looking for it ever since. But, you know, so I got those records and so that's, this is my summer, listening, playing poker, listening to these few records he told me me to do and playing for drums there for like 15 minutes a day pretty much. And then when I got back to the University of Houston, like everybody who heard me like, man, you've been shedding like crazy, like your playing went from here to here, like in that short period of time. And it wasn't because I was shedding drums, it was that I was listening in a different way. So from that point on, whether it was drum and bass, garage, two step, reggae, hip pop. It didn't matter. Afro-Cuban. I was introduced to a lot of that stuff through Marvin Sparks, you know, the Cuban, the Indian, the Brazilian. I listened to it in a certain way. So like I would play John Madden. I was addicted to John Madden, you know. So I would take, play John Madden, cut off the music and only have what I was checking out. And I can sing everything from the bass line to the cars from the little subtle little things. You know, I never transcribe any drum thing. Never. I always was just listening to like trying to figure out what was going on. And then this is my own brain working. Jeff Watts was one of my favorite drummers. And at the time he was playing with Branford Marsalis, Wynton Marsalis, Kenny Garrett, Michael Brecker. He was playing with like all the top people in jazz. I'm like, one, like what is it about Jeff Watts that these people love so much? Like, what is the concept? What is he doing? happening, you know? And I learned back then, like, if you can understand, if you have your basic skills together and understand the concept, you can get in the situation and make those artists in that band situation happen because you understand the concept. They don't want me to come in and sound verbatim like Tain, you know? They want me to bring a certain kind of vibe, certain kind of listening, certain kind of musicality to the situation. And the second light bulb that went off, I was like, man, if Tain is playing with all them people and doing all my records. He can't do all those gigs at once. You know what I mean? So that means it's a room, you know? Right, right. So the listening from learning from Mr. Carter, from Sparks, from Tain, learning how to listen. So no matter what the music is, I'm like trying to be as authentic as possible first and foremost, authenticity. And then my creativity after that, you know. And then like you say, I'm the transition 12:44 — Refusing to Be Pigeonholed of going to New York. The biggest thing for me when I went to New York, I refused to be pigeonholed. I knew some jazz drummers that tried to play hip-hop, and the cats was like now. No matter how good they really sound or thought they sounded, cats wasn't having it because you played jazz. So when I was in the hip-hop circles, I was hip-hop. I was playing with the Black Rock Coalition doing live drum and bass. It was me, Jojo Mayer, Zach Danziger was like the only guy doing live drum and bass in New York. I was playing with the Africans, like all the Doudou N'Diaye Rose's kids. I was doing all these different things. Wow. And like, nobody, some people call me Tank and some people call me Terreon. So it was like, man, you know what he's doing named Terreon, people be like, nah. But then other people, I can only do it in Tank. So people didn't know that I did all these different things because I kept it completely separate. 13:36 — Lauryn Hill and the Invoice Lesson And this is a funny story. I never told you this, but man, like learning, I'm like, we need to do this more. But like, I don't know if you remember, like maybe been like around 2000, 2001, Ms. Hill, Lauryn Hill was recorded, was recorded down in Miami in Florida. Sony had the house, remember? Oh yeah. She converted the house to the studio. Yeah. So I get a call, I get a call from them to fly to Florida. They're like, can you fly to Florida tomorrow? I'm like, what? I'm like, all right, I'm kind of open. You know, I ain't got nothing for a couple of weeks. You know, so I call, I'm like, I don't know what to charge these people. You know, so I call person I know who works with like people on their level, it's Christian McBride. Like, man, I don't have no idea what to charge. He's like, he told him what the situation was like, oh, triple scale, you know. Oh, triple scale, you know, and then over time, he's like, you know, this, you know, I was like, cool. So then when I got to Florida, you remember Aisha, her assistant? So when I got there, she told me what was happening. You had just left. And Aisha told me, she's like, man, it was, because you want business. And I learned this was a very important lesson. She told me, she's like, don't tell them, don't say nothing about money. She's like, Trevor Lawrence just hit them with the invoice. So from that, I was like, I ain't say nothing about money. I was there for like a week and a half. And I just had the lawyer write an invoice. And there was a lesson that I learned from you to get what you deserve. And she was like, she didn't like the fact that you hit them with the invoice, but straight business. I'll say, you know, it's funny, cause that is a funny story. And the reality is that the main thing was I was already in Miami working with another producer, friend of mine. So there was somebody working with him that has something in common with him. And so let me know that they needed a drummer. So my thing was I want to just go over there and meet them and everything and see if the vibe is cool. And then I was scheduled to go back home. So it was like, I'll go home and come back. I don't want to be moonlighting on somebody else's bill. That was my whole thing. So we did the session. And it was cool, you know what I'm saying? And she did what she did. And it was interesting dynamics, but of course it worked out. But they didn't want to see me go. And I was like, listen, I'm going home to see my family. I'll come back and we can do whatever you want. But what happened was it just got to the point where there was always a lot of rumors swirling around that camp with people getting not paid, paid, fired, whatever. So my thing was, hey, listen, it's gotta be business. You know what I'm saying? So it wasn't like, it wasn't anything personal. It was just like, hey, we gotta do it. I'll never forget, bro. I never will forget. If somebody says something to the effect, well, they balked at the price at first, you know? And so I said, hey, listen, it is what it is. I'm not tripping, whatever. You could just take me off, whatever. And I'll never forget two weeks later, my accountant called me like, hey, I just got to check, what's LH Productions? I said, all right, we cool. Yeah, so I owe you one for that. I did the same thing. I ain't say nothing to just hit it with the invoice. Come on, bro. Because sometimes, yeah, that's good business, bro. Because sometimes, yeah, that's good business, bro. And this goes back to also what you're saying about, how did I navigate? So I was down there for a week. It was me, Tarus Mateen. I think Ray Angry and another keyboard player. You saw the situation, it's like super talented. Oh yeah. Another funny story about that situation was like the engineer. She had engineer there and like I was tuning the drums, got the drums sound recording. She's like, Terreon, man, why your drums don't sound good? I was like, bro, my drums sound killing. So she came in the room and she heard it. She's like, told him, you know, like why the drums don't sound like this? So the next thing you know, she gets on the phone, calls the engineer from LA who recorded, Miseducation and all the Fugees stuff. He flies in on the red eye, comes in, and this is a whole nother story, I tell him another time, but make a long story short, he's like, let's go L-Boogie. And you know what that went to a whole nother wormhole. It's like Ms. Hill, he's like, what? You L-Boogie. So literally, I'm not exaggerating. they, they argued and debated for about four hours at the studio. Me, Aisha, an engineer, got in the car to take him to the airport to go back to LA. They argued for another hour. He came back to the studio. We recorded. And then after that night, he packed this stuff up and he brought his like reference And then after that night, he packed this stuff up and he brought his like reference monitors and everything like, right? Right. But you know the whole situation, but back to the point, navigate through New York. So, um, a thing happened where she called me to come in New York when she had all these people and I'm in the studio, other people are playing and she's like, man, I need a jazz. She telling the people like she needed a jazz basis. And everybody's like, man, you know, Terreon plays with the best jazz bassists in the world. She was like, I didn't know you played jazz. I was like, you didn't ask me. I'm here playing hip hop. So for me, I kept it clean. Most people didn't know I did everything because I didn't want you to tell me, I didn't want you have a bias because what you what you perceived as not thinking out and also just being authentic as possible same thing with your Cuban stuff in the African stuff well thanks for you know cuz that was you know over 20 years ago like 25 year ago so thankfully because of stuff like that what you did maybe what I did definitely what Chris has done what Robert has done I feel like that stigma now is not not as much anymore you know I think people play You know what I'm saying? Cats are playing over what Justin's doing, like both Justins. You know, like cats just play, you know, what Sput's (Robert "Sput" Searight) doing. Like, I think that's a great thing that we've had happen in the drum community that you don't get typecast like you used to, because people don't understand it really was a weird vibe or bias. You know what I'm saying? And as big as you are, people have, the people probably still have no idea that you've been playing with Herbie forever. Right, I mean, yes, it's a different, you know, different world and you know and I get it you know I'm saying and even the young boy that's playing with him now Jaylen he's killing you know next thing I hear he was doing Alicia's play and he you know works with Terence so that generation for what we did back then now finally has kind of broke that wall down so yeah it's great it's great to see that for the next 20:28 — Christian McBride and the Telepathic Rhythm Section generation of cats now you mentioned already in this conversation two of my my favorite bass players, which is Tarus Mateen and Christian McBride. So you've played with all the greats, like you just said, and what's that, what's the, what do you think the difference is between a rhythm section that's really communicating and locked, and then just a decent rhythm section? Because you've been in a lot of rhythm sections that I like to call telepathic, where the drums and bass have the thing. You know what I'm saying? you establish that rapport or is it just only a few people and that's it? That's a great question. And I think first off, it starts from the musicianship. All those catchy names. I tell this all the time. When I was playing with Christian McBride, he's one of the best musicians in the world. We would be traveling across the world in these vans. Pre iPhone. And I'm serious, he had like a big duffel gym bag We're CDs. Like the whole CD. The whole CD. Yeah. Yeah. Full of CDs. And we'd be talking, shooting and s***. You know, going on. But the whole time we talking and having fun, he's listening to music. And I was like, man, this dude is literally one of the best in the world ever. Yeah. And he's still constantly listening. Now, I ain't talking about just jazz, my R&B, hip hop, classical funk, rock. He knows it all. Because he listens. And I think a lot of the musicians I love, and specifically bass players, Tarus, Reginald Veal, Reuben Rogers, Ben Williams, Ben Shepherd. All these musicians are completely, they total versatile. They total versatile, and they love playing all this stuff. So I think it has to start with the musicianship and really understanding. I hate, if we go into some drum and bass and then the bass player start playing James Brown. You know what I mean? Right. He's like, he hadn't checked out a lot of stuff. You know what I mean? Like now, you got to play a long note. I'm playing all these riffs and you need to hold it. Play some sub bass. So it starts with the knowledge of the music. And one thing I started doing, actually, at the University of Houston, in the 90s, for some reason, all the bass players wanted to sound like guitar players, playing all the strings and playing only high up on the neck, even on the acoustic. And I'm like, man, this is frustrating. I just want somebody to hold it down. And then I will never forget it was a DownBeat article in the back of the article. Somebody was interviewing Christian McBride, and they asked him like, man, you play with everybody. You got all the gigs, you're on all the records. Like, what do you do to get all these gigs? And his answer was simple. I play roots and fifths. Right, he plays the bass. You know, so I used to keep this, I used to keep that article in my stick bag and I would give it to bass players when I heard him doing all that, like, you know. We all got rules, and this is your rule, bro. Yeah, man. I mean, that's proof. And it's funny you say that duffel backstory, because essentially, he was having the mindset of what became the norm, which is having all these songs in your pocket. You know what I'm saying? And always been able to reference and listen. And they always say the greats are always listening. Tony used to listen to a lot of stuff. I just watched that documentary they had. He was out in Africa in the middle of the year. Africa, yeah. So, you know, cats were always listening to push forward and to get some other influences in the music. And that makes a lot of sense, man, especially about Christian, because he's so well recorded and well versed and well, you know, just respected and one of the greats on the instrument. But thank you for sharing that, man, because it's like the bass and drum lock, it can be, you know, there's always those few that's special, you know what I'm saying? And it's like, you know, I got my couple that it's like a certain thing where you just, you know what I'm saying? And that's something that you can't really always get, but it's great when you do. 24:34 — Building the Blackout Drum Sound Now, let's talk a little bit about drums, man, because I know for you, I've known you so long, but I notice in the jazz world, you're one of the few people that leads with a 10. So let's talk about that. You know what I'm saying? Let's talk about the setup, what drums you're playing, all that kind of stuff. Yeah, so initially, like when I first moved to New York I started playing with Stefon Harris and Christian. With Stefon, we first started as a quartet and then we moved to blackout. Blackout was conceived after I was playing with his quartet for a while. I played on Casey Benjamin's Senior Recital at the New School. Oh, wow. Darryl Hall, who was the first bass player winner of the Monk Competition. People don't even know who he is, but he's one of the baddest bass player. He's in blackout. And then Marc Cary, he and I play with Abbey Lincoln together. So these cats was like people who I rode with. And the reason I named those guys, and I chose those guys, they all played everything. Casey played Rhodes, he sing, he knew all the R&B stuff. Darryl was a killing electric bass player. He know James Jamerson, Marcus Miller. He can do all of that, but he can do that on an upright. Now you know Marc Cary, Gogo Keene, Abbey Lincoln, Roy Hargrove, played with like the Betty Carter with the best of all the worlds. So we all had this common thing of being versatile musicians. So with my drum sound, I wanted drums that can navigate and fit in between all these different things we were going to do. So back then, I had a 20-inch kit, a eight-inch tom that was high, and a low-killing, 15-inch floor tom. And at that time, I was deep, deep, deep into Bob Marley. And so my snares down and all of the late stuff I was doing was all based off of reggae. And I love the electronic drum and bass, how distinguished each instrument was. And I love the electronic drum and bass, how distinguished each instrument was. So that's why I started playing with a small snare drum, piccolo snare. This was late 90s and I was playing three snares, four snares back then. You know what I mean? Before it was a thing. Just because sonically, that's what I was hearing at the time. So for me, and then also having a great engineer. I was just with this great engineer from Randall who was the engineer of Kaleidoscope studios (Kaleidoscope Sound) for a long time. We got to talking about Joe Ferla who mixed all the first Blackout records, all the records I deal with Christian McBride as well. And the way he had my drums singing and sounding like my drums, I was just like, so that actually became part of the sound as well. So that in combination of having the right equipment, the right heads, you know, made that sound. 27:23 — Sabian, Premier, Yamaha: The Endorsement Stories What about now or like throughout history? Like what companies are you rocking with? Like right now? What's the name? First, I've been with Sabian since 1994. Wow. You know, I started endorsing them when I was in college in 1994 when I was selected to be the drummer for the Duke Ellington All-Star College Band. And my teacher, Marvin Sparks, hooked me up with Bobby Boos, gave me a bunch of cymbals to do the gig. And he and I were like, you know, he was always supportive. Then after him, it was the great Paul Solucci at Sabian. Wow. So I've been, and that was Chris Stankee. Chris, yeah. I've been with him for a long time. First, the drums were some custom drums, Baron Edge made from this guy here in Georgia. Then after that, it was Premier with Colin Schofield. But the funny thing about before I started with premier, I went to the big music show in Frankfurt. You remember that? The Musikmesse. The Musikmesse. Exactly. Yeah. So I was doing a concert with Christian McBride at an opera house in Frankfurt. And me and Ron Blake, we heard it was going on. So we walked over there. and just talked our way into this Musikmesse. So I went, I was going to talk to some people at Sabian. And then like, as soon as I got in there to like the drum cymbals and whatever, Sonor was right there. So Ian Crofty for Sonor, he knew who I was. And like, man, he's like, man, we need to have you on the roster, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And like right there, he's like, I got the contract to this day, signing by the sign with Sonor, excuse me, and that happened. And then right before I left, somebody came up to me, it was Colin Schofield. He's like, man, before you go, if you could not sign the contract for two weeks, I'm with Premier. And he started naming all these records I was on and who I play with. I'm like, man, this can't know who I am. And he's one of the people responsible for getting Dennis Chambers to start doing clinics for Zildjian. Colin's been for a long time. And from Boston. It's like, I can't tell you why, but you should hold off on signing. I was like, okay. You know, I always say, if somebody tell me some knowledge, I'll listen. So ends up Ian Crofty was leaving to start Drum Magazine. So he wasn't going to be at Sonor anymore, you know? So like, as you know, you want to be at a company where you got some connections and you got some people that's looking out and understand who you are so they can take care of you in the right way and you have a relationship. So that's how I ended up signing with Premier. Drums, tour support, clinic support, just good friendship for many years. But the thing was with Premier, there was no distribution in the States. I only played them in the UK and like Japan would fly one in for me. But other than that, 99% of the time I was playing Yamaha, that's the reason now I'm with Yamaha. Got it, because they're everywhere too. And then what about heads and sticks? I've been with Remo for many, many years. I actually met Mr. Remo Belli. I used to see him all the time when I was at Marvin Sparks and he was a Remo artist. Johnny Lee Lane was the education ambassador for Remo for many years. So I had a personal relationship with Mr. Belli for many, many years. You know, so I've been with them for many years. And then being in Houston, I was with ProMark, had my own signature stick with them. And I'm in college, you know, playing ProMark And I actually met Vic Firth, and he was trying to get me to endorse Vic Firth. And I was like, Mr. Firth, I'm already with ProMark. And he was like always so impressed at the fact that I didn't jump at that time, because I was, and he always felt that that was honorable. And so we were always cool on that. But Joe Testa, who was with Yamaha for a long time, was at Vic Firth. So after I left ProMark, they were switching machines, and he was like, we're not going to make you a stick for a year. after the year, they still weren't making a stick. So like Joe was like, I got you. And I have a signature stick with Vic Firth that will be available on my website pretty soon. Oh, nice. Congratulations, man. Congratulations. And a lot of blessings on that. Exactly. Yeah, man. And a LP percussion with Jerry. I was like, you know, Marty Corn was like a brother to me. So I've been with LP for many, many years. So I've been with LP for many, many years. That's dope. Yeah, man, they're all great people over there, man. And those are my guys, Derek and Jerry. Yeah, so. Exactly. Great people. Yeah, oh, yeah. So I'd like everybody to shout out their companies, man, because people don't understand when you're working a lot and you're doing a lot of stuff, man, that stuff really comes in handy to have these relationships and have other people helping us. And that's the other thing, as you brought that up, 32:23 — Why Every Gig Gets Brand-New Heads because for example, with Remo, it's on my rider. Right. Every gig I do, it has to be a brand new set of heads. Yeah. And I'm going to keep it real. They give all the magazines and all the company give a lot of love to like the big rock cast and all the in the ads and the magazine a 50 million times. But they tune with that same kit on the concert for the whole tour. Right. Whereas like what we do with Backline, like my manager and role manager, oh, we not playing if it's not brand new head. So every gig I do, somebody gotta purchase a set of brand new Remo heads. So like that matters, you know what I mean? And I think the companies need to recognize that. Yeah, it's our instrument. I mean, they don't, you know, they tune pianos, you know, they have, it's like they don't, they look at us, you know, give us some old beat ups. They're like, no, this is our instrument. It has a tonal character. It needs to have the tonal integrity. It needs to have the tonal integrity. Stop playing. I remember one time, man, I saw a Weckl rider (Dave Weckl), man. That was the most gangster rider I've ever seen in my life. Oh. He is no joke. Oh, no, seriously. And it's funny you say that. One time I was playing in a, I was about to play in the Blue Note in Tokyo. And I came the day earlier, and he was playing. So I'm there hanging out with him. There with him, while we unboxing his drums. Brand new kit from Yamaha. Right. And he barely put a drum key to the drums. And I'm playing him. I'm like, man, these drums sound like crap. Like what is this? You know? Right. And bro, they turned that PA on after he got through. It was like he just got through, the drums were mastered. Yeah. Yeah. But like it's important to have like, like with the Yamaha drums, I've been playing Yamaha for so many years. Yeah. The consistency, I know if I get the Yamaha drums and the drum heads I request, I can get this, my sound instantly, you know? Oh yeah. So that's why it's imperative for backline to have what we need. So I know part of your question was what was the sound, but that's funny. Yeah, man, that's important, bro. And it's, listen, this is what we do, and we need to represent ourselves the best that we can. 34:34 — "Instagram Is Not Music" So in this day and age, we did successfully kind of bridge the gap between different styles of music kind of bridge the gap between different styles of music and drummers not being typecast. But there is the big debate still, which is, Is it speed and chops or is it touch and phrasing? So with the younger people, you know, and you know, when you coach somebody or when you talk to somebody, how do you get them to understand that phrasing and dynamic control may be a little bit more important than flash? I don't know. Do you believe that or what do you think? Yeah, I don't even try to debate that because the truth is Instagram is not music. Period. Social media is not music. You know? Yeah. Like I love to hear like, like one of the best things I love is this Makossa stuff from, from Cameroon. And these drummers are just swinging and grooving so hard. Like I'm right, producing the record. And like I've made an arrangement based off the group. Like to me, I was always more impressed and more moved by like something slick that you, that I heard Vinnie Colaiuta do. You know, it wasn't like, but it was like something musically creative. I was always more attractive to that. I've never been attracted to the stick spinning or the flash, I'm a shy person. So I want less attention as possible. So that was never my thing. But social media, that's all it's about. It's me, me, me, me, me. And that's great, but if that's what they want to do. And they can do clinics all over the world and have the oohs and ahs. But I like to move people. I want my nieces and nephews to come to the concert and be able to understand and appreciate the music. And I want people to feel and be singing. So I think now is just two completely things. I think different things. If we were just talking about music, definitely time, groove, feel, phrasing, without a doubt. But we're not just talking about music anymore. talking about industry, what do they call it? Influencer now. Everybody's an influencer. So if that's what you're doing, influencing people to play fast and impress them with like, that's cool. That's always how I felt about back then double bass drum. I tell everybody I play all music except speed metal, because I don't have the double bass drum chops. And the only people I actually liked the way they use it was Vinny, Steve, Smill. a few people, you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That like really, I think that your career also speaks to that, which is, you know, I mean, and we all know the reality. I mean, you know, that stuff does kind of have its place in social media, but, you know, to get work and to make records and all that kind of stuff, it's always going to be about the feel and the phrasing and the sensitivity and the sound, you know. So at least it gives a platform to people that only do that. But Tain, when he was on the show, he said something that made a lot of sense. It's like, it's a lot of people learning all this stuff, but you never went out and played any gigs in front of people and like learn how to be in a room and react and what people are, you know what I'm saying? So you have all this one in your bedroom existence and all you do. And we don't know if it took you 500 takes to get the thing you put out. You know, you don't have that live. You gotta do it in real time and step up to the plate or fail, you know what I'm saying? So in this instant. 38:15 — The Chops Drummer Who Couldn't Keep Time And even before social media, I never forget I was at a jam camp, the special guest at a jam camp. And it was like this huge drummer who was like, when I say chops out of the world, like triple bass drum chops, you know, like. Right, right. Right, right. And then like one of the tunes, like one of the things we do, everybody, all the faculty would play a song. And it was like, it was just a groove shuffle. And the beat was getting turned around and he couldn't keep timing. All the students were like baffled. They kept coming to me like almost in tears, like he couldn't play time. I was like, I don't, ain't say nothing, you know? And that's happening in a lot now, you know, where like, you know, I would love to have some of those chops, but I also understand that 99% of the gig is me playing music and making the music right. You know? It's like some gigs, you might not get that 1% of the time where you get to show your house and do solos. You know, like, that was the other thing when I moved to New York, man, people would see me doing gigs where I might just play a mallet, one mallet and a brush for the whole gig. And I didn't mind. You know? I don't mind. Might be one gig where I just played two and four and didn't do a feel. You know, we was doing live hip hop before, that was a thing, you know, with the real live show. And so I think it's imperative that people understand what it is they want to do. And some people that's all they want to do, which I think is great. But one of the biggest compliments, but also it was kind of baffling to me when I moved to New York, and I'm not exaggerating, like everybody was like, oh wow, man, you actually listen. I'm like, I thought all musicians listened, but I found out quickly that is not the case. And even now, you know? So the funnest gigs for me, with Blackout, with the Unlimited Miles, MONK'estra, Christian, cats who listen and like you was talking about the telepathy thing. Me and Keezer (Geoffrey Keezer) have done stuff on the bandstand together where people be like, even the people on the bandstand be like, how did y'all do that? But the listeners is on such a high level when you understand the concepts of music, you understand if you go back and listen to like some of the Tony records with Miles and Herbie. They had like some telepathy moments, but then you understand, oh, you hear with Tain and Kenny (Kirkland). You know, you hear it. But you understand that these cats are listening in such a way, you understand like how the chorus work. You might hear somebody do a hit there, and then like, if you're smart enough, it comes back in that session together. But that's the beauty of music for me is playing with cats who listen, and let's make the magic happen. 40:54 — Playing With Singers: Dianne Reeves Yeah, now you also master playing with singers, which is almost like a lost art for the new generation. And that requires a whole bunch of different type of discipline and humility and restraint. And it also opens you up, you get a lot of calls, because a lot of people can't do that. So when did you realize, and you did, you did a lot of playing with Cassandra, didn't you? No, I had to, I did like one gig with Cassandra. Okay, okay. Because I was always on tour. I was always on tour. Got it. You know, with Dianne and other people. So I didn't get a chance to play with her as much, yeah. But Dianne, you know, Dianne Reeves, I mean, my ex stepfather who passed away used to play with her back in the day, Ralph Penland. used to play with her back in the day, Ralph Penland. You know, and you know, I just when I first started hearing about her, but you've been playing with her forever. So what's the mindset when you go into a gig like that versus, you know, when you go into a gig where you got a little bit more freedom Or does she give you the same freedom in that band? Yeah, it's like trying to visualize it. It's like you have a circle and you got freedom within this circle, but then like on another situation, that circle might be a little wider. You got a little bit more freedom. So as a musician, as a drummer, I have to understand whom I'm playing with, how much they need, how much is too much. You know what I mean? And one thing she always tell everybody what she loved about me is the fact that I can do anything. And as you know her, if you know her, she can go anywhere at any moment. And that's why Tell Cats, you gotta be listening. You gotta know how to listen and you gotta know how to read music, because she might pull a chart out that she hadn't sang in like 15 years. And you gotta be able to read that. And she's one of those people who was, she was brought to LA by all the people from Earth, Wind and Fire. She was singing jazz, but she went there and started playing, singing with Sérgio Mendes and doing all this other stuff because she checked out everything, you know? So she's a versatile musician. So for me to come in there and I'm a versatile musician like she is, it's like a perfect lot, you know? Like I play when if I'm playing straight ahead, I'm playing straight ahead. And that's one of the biggest things, you know, I want to have a million drums and I've always wanted to do it, like have a double bass drum and I've only done it for a few kids and I'm doing that. So I got like the 20 for thumping and I got like a throw off 16 for bebop straight ahead stuff. Cause I hated swinging with a big 20 inch bass drum, you know? So like I would like, so like what I would do like with Christian them, like a lot of times I would just play the ride and snare. You know what I mean? Because, but like then afterwards I started having like one 12 inch tom with a Coated Ambassador (Remo head), tune like bebop like Tony, but then I would have a 10 inch that sound like electronica and my 16 would be like a cannon, you know? so I can have some subtle things, but I hated soloing because at that time I had my snare for a specific sound to try to embrace all the different things we were, but it wasn't necessarily like a bebop straight ahead snare drum. You know, so I have to manipulate certain things with my setup and the sound in order to be authentic, but also be who I am, you know. Bro, I'm literally just finally made that like definitive decision. Not obviously if I'm recording or if I'm playing with somebody else that requires a regular kit, but for my thing as an artist that I got coming up in my clinics and all that, I literally just built that kit and it's like, I'm looking at it now, it's like the main, I have an 18, then I have a 20 off to the side, and then I have 12, 13, 14, 16, all tuned jazz, and there's a 10 between the 14 and 16, everything is super tuned. and then a snare to the left and in my jazz type cymbals, but I do have a clap stack, of course, and a little 10 inch secondary hi-hat and that trash can thing, the junk hat, right? On a remote pedal. But what I've decided is that on certain selections, I'll just throw some overlays on, you know what I'm saying? So like on certain selections, I'll throw some overlays on the toms and then we can get different snare sounds, different tom sounds, but I'm right with you because I don't like the other, I don't like trying to force a non- Exactly. jazz thing, and I don't like playing bebop with a big bass drum. So it's like, it's because people don't realize that the ride cymbal and bass drum and upright, that the ride cymbal and bass drum and upright, there's a sound there. And once you- It's a- Yeah. Exactly. You lose that frequency because the bass rounds out the frequency when we got an 18, but if we got a 20, now we playing in that same frequency. Same zone. Exactly. And it muddies it up. 45:51 — The Unlimited Miles Drum Sound I got two things I want to say. So I can't wait till people hear this Unlimited Miles record. So this record, I use these. I like I'm vibe, as you can see. Yeah, come on. I got these blue. Yamaha wanted me to play these on Live Oak Customs. And they were like blue and black. So the band, we all wore blue and black. So I had some Remo send me some Colortone heads. Yeah. For the drums. So I didn't even realize that they made Colortone Ambassadors. So I didn't even realize that they made Colortone Ambassadors. Right. I thought it was just Emperor. Right. So I had these Colortone Ambassadors, and I swear to God, man, they sound so good. Wow. I got the 12 tuned up at straight ahead, the 14 tuned up like high straight ahead. I had a throw off 16 bass drum that's bebop. But then I had a canon for the 16 with Emperor, and then a small 10 as well with Emperor on it. And I made these mutes myself from some rubber kitchen table mat. And I put, I had these phone things, like tabs that I glued on, and like, you know, Amandla (the 1989 Miles Davis album) Yeah, Miles Davis record. Miles Davis. Yeah, yeah. Man. So Marcus programmed all these drum sounds, like program stuff. Right. So man, these mutes sound just like the record. It's so sound like a whole. So wait, I can't wait till you hear it. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. So john davis had to sub for me for the unlimited miles He's like that's one of the hardest gigs he ever had to do because the drum sounds different on every song. And like the way my approach to playing it with the mutes, the tuning of the drums and all that. 47:32 — Burning Spear and the Bricks in the Bass Drum But also a lot of times it's not just the sound, it's the illusion of sound. This was a big lesson I had. I was in New York and I got a call to record with Burning Spear, you know, reggae legends. So I get to the studio like two hours early, me and the engineer getting the sounds right. I'm on my Sly and Robbie vibe, can't wait. So at the time I was young and I was just, I had twists at the time, you know. Yeah. Yeah. No locks. So these cats come in, they looking at me like, you know, who is this dude? You know, like, is this the same dude that we heard? You know, they just knew about the playing, you know. Right, right. So they didn't even hear the drums. They saw my bass drum, bro. Mind you, man, the engineer had hooked it up, signing killer. Right. and played, we had recorded. Man, them dudes, it was like a NASCAR team. One dude came when I, one dude just started taking a head off the bass drum. And I'm just sitting back watching like, what's going on? Another brother comes from outside with like bricks on his shoulder. You know, another dude come with a pillow. You know, another dude come with a pillow. So they slammed up the, took the pillow off the couch, put it in, put them two bricks in, pushed it all the way against the head. And then we spent 30 minutes trying to get the sound to where we had it already. Yeah, hilarious, man. But for them, it was like, that's what they need to see to get the sound that they want. what they need to see to get the sound that they want. And that's a noted, you know, I do that when I'm recording just commercially, whatever. That's what I do. No front head. I use a 24 mostly with a, you know, I use it just a sandbag. But the same thing, that just isolate that shell and really stop the length of that sound wave of the bass drum. But yeah, those cats, you know, listen, The cats have a sound and they're like, we don't want to compromise our sound. So we're going to just make sure it's to our liking, even though it's super repetitive. Yeah, but that was the thing. This dude had engineered all these reggae records before. So he knew what the sound was. And literally, we spent all the time to get to the sound. But for them, that's what it needed to look like. And I tell people that's not just the equipment. That's also how you show up on a gig. you know, like, you know, rock and roll cats, black jeans, T-shirt. They don't want no dude and no vest and tie on their gig. You know what I mean? And I know people who didn't get gigs because of the way they look, you know what I mean? And what they wore, you know what I mean? Yeah, you gotta read the room. All these things are very important. A lot of people don't understand that. Yeah, reading the room, man. That's like, you know, you gotta, even in other areas of life, in safety areas. The number one thing is situational awareness and that comes through in music too. 50:24 — Staying Healthy on the Road So we started off saying you're a two million miler at Delta. So in order to do that, that means you're traveling a lot. So between world touring and recording and teaching and producing, what do you do to manage your physical stamina, like your hand health? you know, all the time, do you set up a very certain you know, all the time, do you set up a very certain ergonomic way so you don't stress your back? Like what are some of your little tricks to keep the long journey going? You should have been doing this for a while. You got some good questions. Like, so first of all, the ergonomics is very important. Like I learned at an early age about posture, you know, like understanding that you have to sit up straight in the seat and understanding that seat height is more important, the most important thing ever. A lot of our heroes, unfortunately, have back issues because the way they set up and the way they set on their seat with the knees above the hips, you know, playing up like this. So you're going completely against physics. Completely against physics. And you're talking about doing that for decades. So a lot of people have major health issues because of that. Like I'm always like either parallel or just a little above parallel with my knees to the floor, you know, to make sure and always having my back straight up, you know, as much as possible so I don't have no back issue. And then with the hands, man, it's literally, we was just talking about this with Stefon Harris and one of my guys and it's just talking about practicing it and like understanding what we need to do as musicians. Two of my favorite musicians and favorite people in the world, Vinnie Colaiuta and Horacio "El Negro" Hernandez. Every time I'm hanging with them at the concert, because if they around, I'm going to see them, period. It's two of my favorite musicians. And we in the dressing room chilling, and the whole time we chilling and shooting the breeze, these jokers are on a practice pad. Oh yeah. I'm like, dang, two of the best musicians in the world, best drummers, I'm just some best drummers ever, who have their own thing who develop like they s***, and they warming up the whole time before the gig all the time. So I'm like, if they the best in the world and they doing it, I gotta do it. So like I have to warm up now, cause a lot of times we don't have a time to like get on the drums as you know, doing these sound checks few minutes and you out. So like now because of them, I'm like, nah, I'm a warm up so I got my Vic Firth sticks with my rubber mallets, rubber stiff heads, and try to warm up. But like, doing when I'm not traveling, even when I'm traveling, man, I used to take a jump rope on the road. I used to jump rope all the time to try to stay conditionally like cardio stuff. And pre-9-11, man, my carry-on was a juicer. Like I used to take my own juicer on the road and have them back, you know, have it on my rider, whatever, fruits, vegetables, lemon, ginger on there. and I would have a juice often before the gig. That'd be 9-11, I'd stop carrying the juicer, but now you can have that. But I try to maintain, and when I'm home, try to do some exercise every day. Yeah, that's crazy. Keep it moving. Yeah, I just talked to Vinnie last night, man. I saw the clip of him going around Instagram, and I was like, man, are you a... Nah, no way. And he's like, nah, I'm not. I said, okay, cool. Cause there's a clip going around in this project he did, and then some other subsequent clips kind of frame him like he may be a part of this situation. And it was like, I didn't know that. I would have known that. And he was like, nah, nah. No shame, but he's like, nah, nah, nah. But after he went through what he went through, we chopped it up and I got him hit to the chart rig that I kind of started using a while ago because it allows us to be looking straight ahead. You know what I'm saying? Straight ahead, yeah, I saw that. Yeah, so he, that helps him out. with his back and stuff, but he's clearly one of the greats, man, and it makes sense that these cats are on the pad and doing all that stuff. I actually created this app called Pocket, and it's literally, there's a pad mode in there. So when cats are on the road, you can kinda just go So when cats are on the road, you can kinda just go through these exercises and it's telling you how accurate you are with the groove and with your pocket, even on a drum set. You just put the phone down and play, and it's going to tell you super honestly. So sometimes I put it out, man. I was like, golly, man, a D? I got a D? I'm only in the 50. I said, man, I thought I was killing. So it's a real great way to just kind of snap you back into getting locked in. You know what I'm saying? Man, I ain't trying to be braggadocious or nothing, but like, this is facts. So this, the musician friend of mine, his wife was doing a doctoral thesis on musicians and their brains and time. So she had me to come in, she had a bunch of musicians to come in and like keep time with the metronome and then she would turn it off and you just keep the time going. She's like out of like 100 plus musicians, I was the most accurate when she turned the metronome off and came back on. So I was going to, I gotta, I gotta put that out there cause I was proud about that. Well, you know what bro, it's funny you say that cause I have drop mode in there. So you can go to mode where the metronome plays and then it goes out two beats, two bars, when it comes back, yeah bro. And that's hard to do. See, these are things that would seem like it's easy, but man, you have to be focused to do that because it's easy to veer off, especially in slower tempos, it's real easy to do, man. 56:17 — Loops, Stems and the Live Show And that's another thing, now especially now with technology and the stems. Even at my church, man, I was so disappointed, I went back to home to my church, and they just playing with loops the whole time. I'm like, it's kind of sound cool, but this is also kind of lame. You know? Right. And I love, I'm no shade on anybody. Like I love all the technology that we have. But for me, it was nothing like hearing a Ricky Lawson concert playing with those cats. Jonathan Moffett. And they played with those cats and they just played drums and it sounded better than a record, you know? And I know that we have the technology to have the songs and the sounds just on the record, but that takes away from the live, you know, people don't understand vibrations and energy, that stuff is real. So we don't get the same feeling when we go to a concert like we used to, and a lot of people don't even have no idea what that is to have a concert to be in the audience at a Prince concert, what that feels like, because all you get in there is electronic frequencies and not real vibrations that the instrument makes, which is a whole other thing. They showing all these things about frequency and sound and healing and things. But I think that's something that we need to talk about as a music community, about what is a live show now. Like I saw a thing that Tommy Igoe put up talking about devaluing ourselves. Yeah, it's great that you could have all those sounds in the stems, of what you've already showed the artists that, oh, we don't need you. It's all in the computer. You know what I mean? Well, that's a big debate. That's a whole other subject. So when you talk about this, it's a big, I want to be on that when you talk about it. Well, we here, we talking about it. 58:12 — Tank on AI: It's How You Use the Tool I ask all my guests, I mean, listen, last time we saw each other, we were at an AI conference in Parkson, Utah. So that conversation has very many sides. And so you're a producer as well as in the know with the technology, you play a lot of versatile things. So I would be completely crazy to not ask you what's your feeling about AI? And it doesn't have to just be generative music. It could be AI in general, like helping you scale, helping you, whatever. helping you, whatever. What are your thoughts? Cause you are an absolute contributing creative and I'm curious as what your overlooking thoughts are of AI? Well, I think like anything, it's like the automobile, you know, with technology, like we were in horses and now we're in cars, you know, like, Yeah. There are pros and cons. Like I know people in those Amish communities who still doing horses, you know, they're not sucking in chemicals, you know. It's like, it's pros and cons to everything. With the AI, we were talking about like sampling, for example, like let's just keep it real, let's talk about like Suno. And somebody asked a question like, that's just like it's going through and sweeping and taking all the music and putting it in the machine. I'm like, I know cats who spent tens and hundreds of thousand dollars flying around the world, going to record shops in Japan and Africa to do the exact same thing, you know? You know, so. Yes, that's the truth. Like, so the tool is there is how you use the tool. So us as producers, for example, I'm writing a song, I'm writing a arrangement of any tune, let's just pick a tune, let's just say We Are The World. I put We Are The World, like, man, I would love to do this as a salsa. I can call my friends and try to work it out and play salsa, but you throw that in Suno and hear what it sounds like as a salsa. Like as a producer, that's invaluable, that's saving you a lot of time and energy. But I'm not going to use it to write the music for me, I just use it as a tool. But on the flip side, what these big companies, for example, like in search shopping centers, as soon as you walk in with AI, the phones are picking up your songs on Bluetooth, on the wifi, tracking where you're going, taking the information, seeing how long you stay at a section. And some items don't even have prices on them because they're going to go in your search history and see how much you're willing to pay and do a price search for you. So using AI in that way is not cool. You know what I mean? It was like, there are good pros and cons, like there are pros and cons to anything, you know? Yeah, a lot of people don't know, man, when you buy an airline travel, it absolutely is adjusting to where your, your, your, your I.E. address. I use a VPN in Romania. You got to. I use a VPN. Yeah, people don't know, man, they don't understand. It's like, a lot of these anti-AI people, okay, but you still use Uber Eats and Uber, and I know I sound like a broken record, but it's just true, man. It's there and it's being used, but these people are picking these selective battles and it's just a little bit inauthentic. It's like saying something just to say it. If you don't want to use it for the music side, just don't use it and here's the other thing. Here's the other thing. It's like dominoes, they say all money ain't good money. Well, everything's not good just cause it's AI. It's not going to automatically be great. You can be a person that's not creative and your ideas that you put into Suno are not good, and they won't be good. Or you can be somebody that's uber creative that has great melodies and sonic ideas and harmonic ideas, and you put that stuff in the Suno and it blows up into a whole nother thing. That is really crazy and unique. So it's a little arrogant to assume that as soon as you integrate AI, it's just going to be something incredible. Not true. There's a lot of trash and actual slop, but there are some things that are dope and can be replayed by somebody or whatever and can be incredible. So, and I know for a fact, you know, there's deals going on right now that people don't understand. These people sometimes are not in the know and labels are always a few steps ahead. So I know for a fact, there are some deals going on that basically, you know, utilize AI in a certain way and it ends up not being AI, but there's definitely some value to good AI things. And I'll leave it at that. But six months from now, people understand what that is. Right now, I can tell you, everybody's out here screaming and carrying on about it. You should be using it to make some bread because you can absolutely do that. Yeah, and that's the whole thing. With any technology, like I went to the AI summit a couple of years ago when they first had it. And it just blew me away and opened up my mind. And even like, for example, one of the guys, he lives in LA, he was there. he lives in LA, he was there. His team does all the video for all the concerts, you know, for Kendrick, for Beyonce, Lady Gaga. They do all the video imaging for all these concerts that people are going to. They don't have an office, it's three of them. They got their laptops. They show up two days before rehearsal, take out a couple of rehearsals, and they generate all their stuff using AI. and they've been doing it for years and they making a killing, you know? So you can figure out how to use it or not use it, but like it's there and it's not going anywhere. You know, I just saw this thing with these high schoolers to engineering, coders, they was trying to figure out what they were going to do. And they was like, man, these AI companies, ChatGPT, OpenAI, all these people, they need learning. So these people, it was only 30 of them, the company is small company and what they do is they supply the learning for AI. the company is small company and what they do is they supply the learning for AI. They hire musicians, producers, lawyers, doctors to give the AI information that they might not necessarily be able to have. The interviewer was like, well, once you making them take your job, he's like, man, the information is out there. They want to get it, period. Yeah. That's right. Well, I'm who I am. I have personal relationships. People still going to want to doctor. They still want to produce it. They can talk to and want to create their vision. You know, you know, so if you if you have that, you still going to work. But if you that producer, you can work smarter, faster, efficient. Like right now, I'm producing six records, you know. Right. Right. And I'm doing this. This is like old school. I just sent somebody a process just so they can understand. I sent them the voicemail of this girl who's just saying some stuff. of a cappella. Then the next thing was heard in the studio singing a cappella to a click track. Then the next thing was me, the MIDI form, the MIDI audio from the music I wrote to it. Then the next thing was the rough of the, just the basic band structure. Then the last thing was like, after I put it all together of like me sending the track to my boy, Holger (surname not said), who's in Estonia, who takes a ferry, you know, to Helsinki to record organ, then bring it back. He bad, bro. He's bad. That boy bad. Yeah, he's bad. I'm like, this is all what's going on to this one song. This is not no, put it in, pop it out. This is organic. I'm putting work into this song. And AI can't do that what I just did. You know what I mean? That's right. Yeah, that's real though. It's not going to happen. And the guy I sent it to, he could FaceTime me at like two in the morning, almost in tears. He couldn't believe the soul of the record and how I kept some of the struggle of her voicing. I'm like, no, I wanted that struggle in there. I wanted to hear and feel what she was talking about. Yeah, man. So to your point, AI is a tool, and it's changing the world, and you can use it for evil or you can use it for good. Exactly, no, exactly. I completely agree, man. And I feel like it's at least worth being familiar, because it's just going to keep being more and more and more apart. I know you travel a lot, So you know about the 20 years ahead that they are in Shenzhen compared to what we are here. So it's like there are already examples of what it looks like in the hired forums. We got AGI conversation looming around us. And listen, I just tell you like this, when I first started my show, I was probably five hours a week editing. And now, since all the tools that have come on and me getting more well-versed and starting to learn how to master Claude and build skills, it's 40 minutes now. So it's like, you know what I mean? So it's like, I don't, it's autonomy. I trained it, it does it better than I did five hours and all I have to do when I'm done with an interview, pop it in my skill and it goes. And I know by the time I see it, it will be better than what I was doing five hours. And then I have another skill that will put it up on YouTube. So that's another skill where I can be spending time with my family, practicing, writing, whatever, that I don't have to spend in front of a computer, strictly because of the tools that are afforded to us in the last six months. And as you know, that's one thing we were talking about at the summit. Right. This stuff is moving at the speed of light. And the things we were doing, And we talking about we doing this on basic Wi-Fi. We not like in like in Korea where they got T1 lines. You know, they're like, like when I was in Korea, like 15, 20 years ago, I'm not exaggerating, I'm not hyping or anything. I was scared when I used the Wi-Fi cause I typed something and it was instantly up. I'm like, what was that? And they had that 20 years ago. And we spent a trillion dollars on nonsense. We still don't have technology that's been available 20 years ago for super high speed internet. You know what I mean? I do. You just mentioned Estonia. I was in Estonia with Herbie probably 12 years ago and they had full wifi in the whole place, in the middle of a field, in the middle of, they all the AM stations have been converted and they have full wifi and this is 12 years ago. You're everywhere. You know, and now you still gotta, you know, I go to my chiropractor place and there's no internet. It's like, it's just unbelievable, man. So, but Tank, man, listen, bro, I really appreciate you pulling up, man. You're a super busy guy, but it's very inspirational, man. And like, I love the versatility of your career and the fact that you've just really utilized all your talents, man, and you continue to do so. It's very inspiring, man. And I hope that people that see this interview dive into your body of work and understand who they've been listening to probably for the last 30 years on so many different things. 1:09:29 — Tanktified and What's Next Anything coming up you want to shout out? First of all, that's another show. First and foremost, first and foremost, my first I've been producing and making everybody else where I was killing for many, many years. Man, I just had the first copy of my CD master, and my man, Daniel Rowland, (Daniel) Rowland, who's from LANDR. Yeah. Man, he mastered it for me, bro. Oh, wow. So it's at Katmau's. Wow. And that's through the Summit connection. Shout out to Greg Sproul and everybody at the Brandes Institute. We all connected. And we all big family. And he hooked it up for me, man. And I'm not exaggerating. When I say I'm hearing stuff on the record that I didn't hear before, it's that killing. So my record, Tanktified, the Miles Unlimited Miles record. I'm co-producing with Beasley. a Janinah Burnett record. I'm producing, I co-produced Carmen Lundy's last three records, two of them are Grammy nominated. Hopefully this next one gets nominated. Producing Stefon Harris's last three Blackout records, so Keith Brown. So a lot of stuff coming out. But mainly, look out for my Tanktified. I got Christian McBride, Marc Cary, Geoffrey Keezer, Ron Blake, Dianne Reeves, Christian Sands. I got some cats on there. But it's more about the music, but these are my, these are not name dropping, but these are my family. These are my people. Of course. Yeah, of course. Absolutely. And I wrote music specifically for Blackout. So this is like one of the last records Casey did. I wrote music specifically for Christian McBride Band, you know, and I wrote music for my crew here in Atlanta. And that's what the record is going to be. And I left that fine here some money for the first time yesterday. And he was just laughing because the sound killing and my cousin Charles Haynes, shout out to him. Oh, Charles, come on. He's mixing all the records that I'm producing right now because he got the ears. That's my boy. Just got off the phone with him. We trying to knock out these six projects and trying to get to the next ones, you know? Yeah, I remember when that cat was in high school, man. It's crazy, bro. That's crazy, man. Oh, because the Grammy band. You probably saw him in the Grammy band. And I was hating. I was like, man, I went to a Grammy band when I was in school. And that was only like a year later. You know what I mean? But like, what time is it within it? I did it in New York in 92, I think. Yeah, man. Yeah, see, I missed the Grammy band. Like, I just, I'm like, my teacher then caught in and get that, and I was like, but y'all got to do some hip stuff, man. That's when I met Michael Leonhart. We was in the band together. And this cat Clarence, and then later on, I saw Clarence was the saxophone player in the band in Ray. And I was like, yo, that's Clarence from the band. You know what I'm saying? You never know, man, but once again, bro, Tank has been a pleasure, man. I really appreciate you coming on The TrevBeats Show. Congratulations, man. I love what you're doing. Oh, I'm good. Thank you, man. Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, this is Terreon "Tank" Gully in the place to be. We out here, man. Go check him out. And he's joining. Yeah, go check him out on all his socials, everything. Just Google him. You'll find plenty of stuff. And look out for that record, Tanktified, and all the other projects he has coming out. My brother, thank you very much, man. Man, much love, bro, appreciate you. All right. Wow, well, just an incredible interview with an incredible musician. And I love when people drop gems and they just break down the craft and share their story with us. I really appreciate that masterclass we just got from Tank. So, you know, in true TrevBeats Show fashion, I'll say this, go sign up for the Drum Challenge, TrevBeatsShow.com. Also, check out our apps, TrevBeatsMultimedia.com, and you can check out my site, TrevorLawrenceJr.com, where the merch is and everything. And if you're interested in being a member of the channel, you can join our backstage tier membership. All that information is down below in the description. And other than that, there's nothing else left to say. So I'm Trevor Lawrence Jr., this is The TrevBeats Show, and we out. It's The TrevBeats Show and we out We out, we out, we out It's The TrevBeats Show and we out It's The TrevBeats It's The TrevBeats Show and we out