Lenny Castro Interviewon
The TrevBeats Show 

[00:00] Cold open [00:00] There was nothing digital about it. There was no such thing. We didn't know about cut and paste. That didn't exist. Digital age had not gotten there. It might've been in the sidelines getting ready to expose itself, but the digital age, which kind of just took over all of a sudden, was not quite there. We were doing analog tapes, two-inch tape, you know? Yeah, yeah. And Jeff brought me in, you know, because we did the Boz Scaggs thing together and we just hit it off so well, man, that he wanted me to play a lot of things and a lot of things that he was doing. [00:36] He wanted me there. And then one of the things was the Toto thing. He said, we're rehearsing, we're forming this band, come down to Leeds, which we're rehearsing, blah, blah, blah, come play. One thing led to another. I did album one, album two, album three, album four came, and basically they were at a place they could pretty much, they had budget. Which is a word we don't, a lot of people, the young kids, don't know about. We had budget. We had the record company, okay, you have four albums that are great from stone one. All right. So Toto IV, I mean, was an alignment of the stars, the writing, the engineering, the playing, the music, the engineer, Al Schmitt, God bless him. [01:22] And well, like I said, I brought in, you know, I came in and I played to anything that they played. Yeah. Jeff was the same thing with Africa. Jeff laid down this track. He said, what can you play for this? And I played that, that part. Yeah. And he loved it. So that's what we started with. Me and him in the studio, Sunset Sound face to face playing that track, playing that beat. Wow, man. Real quick, if you're new here, [01:49] A note from Trevor [01:49] welcome to The TrevBeats Show. Hit subscribe so we can keep building together. And to my regulars who show up every time, I see you. And your viewership means everything. If you ever wanna help fuel this channel so we can do even bigger things, you can grab some fresh gear from the merch store below or jump into the backstage membership next to the subscribe button. Now back to the show. The TrevBeats Show, The TrevBeats Show. [02:26] Introduction [02:26] Well, welcome back to The TrevBeats Show. And I'm going to start off by saying this. If you've heard the radio, I don't care if it's streaming, I don't care, whatever kind of radio in the last, I don't know, 50 years, you've definitely heard my guest today. He is one of the most recorded percussionists in history. And it's not just being the most recorded, it's also what he played on. So, you know, whether it be the backbone of Toto's, like, you know, iconic Africa, or a lot of stuff with Stevie Wonder, Boz Scaggs, Steely Dan, Al Jarreau, Fleetwood Mac, The Rolling Stones, Maroon 5, [03:14] endless film scores, just a master of time and color, color, just everything that embodies being legendary. Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome the incredible Mr. Lenny Castro. Oh, my fans. Oh, thank you. Thank you all, one of you. How you doing, my brother? How you doing, man? I'm so glad you were able to come on, bro. Just what an honor to have you, brother. [03:50] "I kind of partly raised you" [03:50] Appreciate this. The honor is mine, believe me. I've been watching you for, well, we'll go into that, but I've been watching you, watching you grow up and become the man and the person and the musician that you are, and just start off with saying I'm very proud of what I've seen, man. Thank you, man. Thank you. You've done some incredible things, and big, big props to you, bro. Appreciate it, man. I feel like I kind of partly raised you in a way. Come on, man. Hey, listen, some don't know the lineage, you know, and if you don't know my viewers, I mean, I've known Lenny my whole life. [04:23] He worked extensively a lot with my father, so I grew up, you know, doing the sessions and seeing Lenny there. I mean, we had a studio at our home at one point, he used to come. You know, one day I'll never forget, he laced me with a cymbal, like stuff that people do, you know, that puts an imprint on you and you never forget that, and then you turn around and do that to the next generation, you know what I'm saying? So, you know, listen, man, I appreciate it, man. I appreciate everything you've done and just the path you've led on this whole record thing and live thing, just a beacon, y'all. [04:59] Dad was Celia Cruz’s musical director [04:59] But I wanna really get into this because some people don't understand, they only know the record. Oh yeah, I heard he played on this. I wanna talk about you leading up to even the journey of even being a percussionist. Like, where did that happen? You know, how did that work to grow up and how did that start? I didn't have to say that that starts with my biological father, Hector Castro, who was a keyboard player in the salsa circuit. He was a musical director for Celia Cruz, Johnny Pacheco, he had his own band at one time, Como Uto Candela. So I got the music gene from him heavily. [05:43] Heavily. I mean, to the point where at three years old, I was music, I understood music, I understood the sounds and it intrigued me. So that's how the journey started. And to tell you the truth, from that point on, my destiny was already chosen. You know, I mean, I grew up, a lot of kids in my block, oh, you know, I want to be a fireman. I want to be this, I want to be that. Music was always a predestined path for me. I mean I kind of, you know, at one point I thought, oh maybe I want to try this. But music was always straight and steady. [06:26] And it helped me with a lot of situations. So that's how it began. [06:30] New York was a playground for music [06:30] And it took me from one point to another and then being born and raised in New York City. I mean that was a playground. I was born in the 50s, 50s, late 50s, 60s, 70s. Music thrived in New York. You couldn't throw a cat and not hit a place that had music. Every day there was music. One block, five places, four. Some of them bars, some of them clubs, some of them upstairs, some of them in the basement. New York was a playground for music. You know, so, I mean, that's basically how, And having great parents, you know, that nurtured what I had and a good family foundation and great teachers that helped me along the way that believed in what I did. [07:18] You know, so, you know, all that just made it. I made it to a point where I just that was it. Yeah. Like I said earlier, you know, I knew what I was going to do before I was 10 years old. Yeah. You know, I knew. I mean, I used to watch, you know, sit there and read all the credits, the album covers, and look at the pictures, and fantasize about, oh, maybe one day I'll be on that stage, or maybe my name will be there one day, or, you know, I mean, I was seeing Emil Richards' name before I even knew who he was. [07:50] You know, [unclear] album. Wow, yeah. Just to mention, you know, the vinyl collection that my parents had was part of my education also, because they listen to the slickest, the hippest stuff. Yeah, well that's a big part. Yeah, yeah, makes sense. [08:08] Melissa Manchester and the L.A. studio heyday [08:08] That makes sense, man. You know, one thing led to another, you know, and went to music and art, and me and Steve Jordan are our school buddies. We were into music and art together. And like I said, you know, one thing led to another. I eventually, Melissa Manchester found me in New York. She decided, you know, at a certain point, she decided to move to LA. And that was a move that I had never planned, but I would have gone anywhere because she was my first big act. Gotcha. So wherever she was going, I was going. Gotcha. Wow. So that's how I wound up in LA. [08:45] She said, okay, I'm going to LA, you wanna go? She took the whole band, you know, and we all went out there. And I got dropped right in the middle of the studio circuit because of her. Clive Davis, That was his baby. Melissa, he loved Melissa. That was his Jewish daughter, that kind of. Right, right. But he just really, she had him. He loved her. And Arista Records was at its peak. It was running real heavy. So she was running with a lot of big producers, Vini Poncia, who introduced me to Richard Perry, who introduced me to Bill Schnee, which was this Bobby Shaper. I mean, one thing led to another. [09:27] I mean, and like I said earlier, I didn't plan this. It just all happened. Yeah, I mean, and that was the scene. And that was the scene. I mean, you were in the pinnacle heyday of the LA and New York scene, and I can only imagine how it was to just have so many sessions going, and Cass could just, you know, I hear from all these other people that are around then, it's like just a time that just seems impossible now, but it's like at one time, man, it was like unbelievable. I mean. Oh, you could go, you couldn't go, I mean in Hollywood there was an area of Hollywood where a lot of studios were. [10:07] And if you were walking down the street, say Cahuenga Avenue crossing over to go to Wally Heider's or something, you'd bump into a bunch of mugs, go into other studios. Oh yeah, hey, we'll see you later. We'll catch up at Martoni's for drinks afterwards. And oh, I'm going through sound labs. And I mean, it was amazing. There was a culture, there was communication. We were actually seeing each other. We were meeting up for dinners afterwards around the weekends, family gatherings, you know? Yeah, that's crazy. [10:38] Emil Richards and “You’re the next guy” [10:38] For example, like the Porcaro family, I got anointed by them and I got to go to some of those Sunday Italian dinners, man. I was like, damn. Didn't that elbow to elbow with Chianti, with Emil Richards? Woo! Yeah, that's crazy. People don't know, you know, Emil Richards like, I mean, I was fortunate to still, you know, be around when he was still alive. So I used to hear the rumors about his, his the lore, you know, about him coming to a studio and the whole studio was full of gear. Every hallway, every, everything was like, the truck came with him and it was like, anything you could ever imagine. [11:17] I mean, that influenced me, man. I love those stories, man. That's like incredible. And I know you the same way. I think I was telling you earlier about Hal Blaine, Hal Blaine was kind of like that old school. Drummer has it that he had a case that wasn't drums or anything. It was like a mobile music store. So he always kept that. It had strings for guitars, picks, it had all kinds of stuff. I love that. Even against- I love that. Because he never wanted the sessions to get delayed or get stopped. Don't worry about it. You need some, I got it right here. Oh, what a concept. [11:52] That was that mentality. Yeah, man. And Emil was, there was nothing that he didn't have. And the incredible thing about his life was he traveled to places and gathered things where now, I mean, now it's a little bit different. Everything is internet, stuff like that. But at those times, a lot of people weren't going to places like that and gathering those instruments straight from the source. Yeah. You know, angklungs and Thai things and, you know, Balinese, oh my God, because I've had the pleasure and honor of being able to use a lot of his stuff on a lot of stuff that I did. Oh wow, yeah man. [12:31] But he was meeting him and meeting guys of that. They were the guys that they gave me confirmation. They were saying, okay, you're the next guy, you're here. Yeah. And I'm like, oh, oh. [12:45] Cutting Toto’s “Africa” face to face [12:45] Yeah, so some people don't, yeah, they don't know. Some people don't know and I want them to understand, I mean, let's just talk about one of those iconic recordings, which is Africa, right? So some people might think it's programmed. I don't know what they think, but, you know, that intro is like, that's what sets the whole vibe. So, you know, when Jeff did what he did, Porcaro, you know what I'm saying? Did you guys cut that at the same time or did you overdub? Or how did that happen for Africa? Well, that whole track, I mean, I tell you, man, I mean, I tell you, man, that was before the digital age, man. [13:23] There was nothing digital about it. There was no such thing. We didn't know about cut and paste. That didn't exist. Digital age had not gotten there. It might've been in the sidelines getting ready to expose itself, but the digital age, which kind of just took over all of a sudden, was not quite there. We were doing analog tapes, two-inch tape, you know? Yeah, yeah. And Jeff brought me in, you know, because we did the Boz Scaggs thing together and we just hit it off so well, man, that he wanted me to play a lot of things and a lot of things that he was doing. [13:59] He wanted me there. And then one of the things was the Toto thing. He said, we're rehearsing, we're forming this band, come down to Leeds, which we're rehearsing, blah, blah, blah, come play. One thing led to another. I did album one, album two, album three, album four came, and basically they were at a place they could pretty much, they had budget. Which is a word we don't, a lot of people, the young kids, don't know about. We had budget. We had the record company, okay, you have four albums that are great from stone one. All right. So Toto IV, I mean, was an alignment of the stars, the writing, the engineering, the playing, the music, the engineer, Al Schmitt, God bless him. [14:45] And well, like I said, I brought in, you know, I came in and I played to anything that they played. Yeah. Jeff was the same thing with Africa. Jeff laid down this track. He said, what can you play for this? And I played that, that part. Yeah. And he loved it. So that's what we started with. Me and him in the studio, Sunset Sound face to face playing that track, playing that beat. Wow, man. [15:09] The “Africa” loop was physically cut from tape [15:09] And we filled up a 24 track of that. Now David Paich says since they were running a fast speed, I think it was less bars than I thought it was. I think it was maybe four bars, eight bars, but Paich knows about that. You know, if you watch him when his interviews, he's got, he knows because he was kind of like the genius behind that whole thing. Like the genius behind that whole thing. So we took the best either four or eight measures, cut, physically cut the tape, looped it, looped around the studio and then recorded that those bars onto another 24 track see now that's not there let's stop there because they don't people let's talk [15:55] about this now because this this is something that I know about but some people may not get the concept so there were no loops at this time people couldn't take something and sample it yeah but you were exactly yeah and so if If they got something that was something they wanted to repeat, because there were no sequencers, samplers and all that, they had to put it on tape, cut the tape to the part that they wanted, say it was four, eight bars, like you just said. But in order to keep that looping at the right tempo, you had to sometimes stretch the tape all around different areas until you got the right pocket. [16:35] Exactly. That in itself. That in itself, I mean, to hell with, I mean, what me and Jeff played was incredible. Yeah. But just the logistics of getting it down, like you were just explaining. Yeah. I mean, I was sitting around watching these guys do this stuff and doing backwards tambourines, taking the tape and having me do a thumb roll with the tape going backwards. Oh, man. You know, stuff like, and I'm going, what is it? Because we had, the boys had budget, they had time, they blocked. In those days, people block book studios, so they were studio babies. They were born in the studio, so they got to do all these things that they even imagined or saw done or where they how they grew up in the studio. [17:21] So it was like, this is our time. We can do whatever the hell we want. Man, yeah, just an amazing time. Yeah, my dad told me a story about a record, and I'm sure you played on it, which was the Night Dancing Joe Farrell album that he produced. And he told me a similar story about the tape having to do that with a, you know, with like a loop thing. And that was the first time I heard of that. So that's essentially, that's the early, you know, that's like the early sequencing, essentially. It's like analog sequencing, really. I mean. Exactly. That was the predecessor. Yeah, man. [17:56] The predecessor to what we have, to what takes just one finger and two seconds. And that's even too long. I know. If you think it too much about it, you know. You know, it's the cut and paste era. [18:09] Drum machines scared the drummers [18:09] But you know, in my life, I mean, it's amazing the changes that I've seen talking about how things went from analog to digital all of a sudden. I don't even remember how that happened. I really, all of a sudden it was like drum machines were coming out, ARPs were coming out, this and this were coming out, and then the DX, Yamaha DX series came out and it was like, just like all of a sudden, it was like, where the f*** did this... Oh, pardon my French. Where did this stuff come from? Yeah. Where did it come from? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But it was there and it was embraced. [18:43] Yeah. Many other technologies and many other things that have come after that. Yeah. Drum machines. Yeah. That just scared the s*** out of drummers, man. Drum machine. Drum machines, programming. Yeah. A whole new world. Yeah. I remember talking to Gadd about that, man. I fortunately got his last interview and we were talking about, you know, talking about that whole time when all that ushered in, man, and you know, Cass had to play with drum machines and you know, it was mixed emotions and we're seeing that now. We're seeing that now. And then the grid came along and then Pro Tools came along and all of a sudden there was the grid. [19:22] Yeah. That was a word we never, what was that? The grid? That was a football term. Right, right, right. We're coming along. Do you think, do you- All of a sudden it's in the music world. [19:31] AI? “We have been there before” [19:31] Do you feel a correlation now with the whole AI conversation to that period? It seems like it's almost the same type of mentality. What do you think about that? What do you think about that? Bingo, bingo. Yes, we have been there before, my brother, in many different ways with many different technologies and many different things. Yeah. You know? It's always, see music is a, it's just never ending change. It's always morphing. Music morphs, people's tastes morph. What they use, what they hear, what they listen to, what's happening environmentally. What motivated the folk guys and the protest people in the 50s, the Bob Dylan's, what was going on in the world, motivated their music and their lyrics. [20:18] Same thing now. What we go through now, what we see now, what we're exposed to, it motivates and changes things. And the music does the same thing. But for me, and I've seen it a million times before, or as many times as it's happened in my lifetime, it always comes back around cyclical. Yeah. People start using drum machines, they go, but, well, yeah, they use it, and they abuse it. And then they start hearing people going, what did we do before? Right. So we used the real drummer. Oh yeah. I actually heard that conversation. Yeah. And I was like, oh my God. This is where we're at. [20:58] And again, you know, these technologies and these things that come across us have to be embraced. People get scared about them. You know, the AI thing is really, you know, it's going its way. It's going its way. So you know, musically, I'm kind of, I believe in embracing situations, not letting them take you over. Sure. Sure. Learn about them. Learn how to use them. Yeah, of course. So that mentality, I mean, most of my guests feel the same way, especially the ones that have really contributed. You know, I mean, and it's starting to even in little ways, it's starting to kind of level itself out in small little steps. [21:39] We're seeing little things come here and there, little regulations. So you know, there's some push to something, you know what I mean? So yeah, you know, I mean, it's not like we don't know about it. And musicians, our caliber of musicians and our musicianship will always put out a red flag. Uh oh. Yeah. Yeah. Oh yeah. We know. Oh yeah. We know. But Joe Blow, mediocre man. Yeah. Yeah. He's just gonna go, geez, that's amazing. I just want that. But listen to it. It's got a new soul. Come on. What the hell are these? Yeah. So, and speaking on that, it's like one of the big [22:17] Sometimes it just needs a shaker [22:17] themes is serving the song. And you know, as a percussionist, you're always having to face that serving the song versus adding colors like yeah, on you know, percussion is wise, I can say you can always play something like you can always go you've got within it, you know, yeah, you can go it doesn't matter how complete the song is, you can always figure out something to add and put in there, whatever. But you worked a lot with all the biggest Quincy, Donald Fagen, all these people. And a lot of even Dre is the same way. Space is sacred. So how do you, how do you, when somebody says, Hey man, what are you hearing? [22:59] Like, how do you decide? Do you sometimes say, well, I don't hear nothing on this. I'll be honest, you know, I'll give them whatever opinion that I have. You know, if I feel, if I feel, I think it just needs a shaker. Everything is there. You know, after years of doing what I've been doing and I, I kind of know what's going on. Sonically there are certain areas, maybe there's too much highs and I should be up there. There are a lot of parameters. And then you just, like I always tell a lot of kids, you got to know when not to play. Bette Midler put a great one there. She says, you know a rest is part of music, isn't it? Yeah. Damn right, lady. Yeah, that's beautiful. Yeah, man. [23:44] Sometimes that's what you don't play. I mean, I'll do tracks and people will get, well, I need some percussion. And I'll listen to it and go, I think you just need this. Yeah. And if there's, if they push me to say, well, we want you to experiment with something else and I'm gonna go, oh, they're fine. Yeah, yeah. And I'll push it that far. Yeah. Because that's what side musicians do. We don't make up our minds for them. Sure. You want more? You got more. Right. So if you're asking me, I think it's cool the way it is. And like I said, you know, throughout my years of playing, it's sometimes it's not what you play, it's how much you don't play and where you put things. [24:23] You know, there's a lot of thought, a lot of philosophy behind percussion. One triangle could take it or one cowbell beat can change the whole dynamic of a song. And you talk about, you have to listen to the song and let it tell you what it means. Ideas, I got a million of them. I got a million of them. That's great. I mean, but, and sometimes I give people when I do stuff at home, I'll give them a little bit more than they would expect. A lot of times, nine out of 10 times, they keep everything because they go, wow, I never thought of that. [25:01] Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sometimes I think I might be going overboard, but what the hell? There's always the mute button. Sure, sure. And it don't mean nothing for me to give them a little bit more. [25:12] Europe with Stevie Wonder and an orchestra [25:12] Yeah, well, it's interesting you say that because speaking of, you know, space and just incredible recordings and all that that you've been a part of. I mean, now we're just here. It's the 50 year of Stevie Wonder is having a 50 year of songs. And you know, I know you worked and recorded with him and toured with him. I mean, what are some of the recordings just so, it was for my guests, some of the recordings. I didn't do too much. I mean, I did Love Light in Flight from The Woman in Red soundtrack. Sure, sure, Love Light in Flight, yeah. Live. That was such a weird thing. [25:52] Did we do it live? No, did you do some live? You toured with them at all? Oh yeah, I did the Hotter Than July tour, In Square Circle. I did this one tour that we did where we took a conductor and a librarian and we went to all the main cities in each country in Europe and got a local orchestra. And it was, we got to play with a, Stevie stuff with an orchestra. I mean, was that- Was it Dr. Henry Panion? Was he the conductor? I think it was, yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's my guy. Yeah, that's my brother. We were Pastime Paradise with the strings. [26:29] Yeah. I was like, oh my God. Amazing. [26:33] The Irish harpist who made the band cry [26:33] And just to sidetrack for a minute, that same tour we did “If It’s Magic,” which is just harp and Stevie. Okay, each country had a harpist that played. Oh my god, this one guy in Ireland, he looked like he was a billion years old. We didn't think he was going to get up on stage. He got up on stage, he looked at that chart and—oh my God—I was crying. Yeah, I was crying. The whole band was crying. Yeah, that's but it was such a special thing to experience that, to play those tracks like that, you know, and of course there was no percussion on that track, but just to be present to watch a harpist. The harpist in France, the one in Spain, the one in Spain, s*** was amazing. But to see that being performed live, just [27:25] never forget that. Amazing. Yeah, man. So I like to also talk about what cats are playing. I mean, [27:32] Gon Bops, Paiste and mastering the slap [27:32] I mean, we know what you play, but what companies are you rocking with or have you been rocking with for years, as far as your gear and stuff right now, like what's your go-to? Oh, well, I'll tell you, the one, I'm with Gon Bops right now, which I'm very, very proud and happy to be with because they gave me, they finally got my own line of congas, which I love. And they're great. Yeah, man, as you should. As you should. And I thank you. Thank you guys. Thank you, Andy. Thank you all you guys. Sabian, they're part of Sabian. Great people. Rich Mangicaro, also. You probably know Rich. [28:10] I know Rich, yeah. Rich and Chris, all of them. Speaking of Rich. Speaking of Rich, the next company I'm gonna mention, which is Paiste. Me and Jeff Porcaro, at that time, Rich was with Paiste. And me and Jeff signed to Paiste at the same time. Wow. Because of Rich. And I'm still with Paiste. I still love their cymbals. The fact that their formula is so, so, so different from everybody else. And there are now a whole bunch of cymbal companies now. You know, just incredible stuff that's being put up. But I love that old Paiste formula. It's kind of edgy, it's kind of moody, kind of weird. [28:55] But it sets me apart from a drummer's sound. I don't want cymbals that are gonna be the same as what the drummer has. That's gonna get in your way. That's my philosophy. Stay in your lane. Right. Right. Please. I use that a lot. Stay in your lane. I respect them too. I respect Paiste because they didn't attempt to copy the clap stack. And I really respect them for that. I respect them for that. Yeah. You know, everybody has when I just, because of the fact that everybody has when I'm gonna get one. Because I know everybody gonna, I see a lot of people, I gotta have one. [29:34] Do you know why? Why do you really want it? So there's Paiste. Okay, Gon Bops, Paiste. Innovative is my stick company. They gave me my own stick, timbale stick, which is incredible stick. Wonderful the way it's made, the wood, and they made it the right color, black, you know? And a little bit offshoot of the old Steve Gadd stick, with the Timbalistic way. Nice. Yeah, and there's some other companies. Well, I still have a kind of distant relationship with LP, even though I'm not with them, but I still talk with them. It's not like you can't dabble with other people or stuff like that. And those are my folks, yeah. [30:16] I am loyal to the one, to the main ones, but those are the main companies that I'm with right now. That's what's up. What about Headwise? Do you just, is it Remo or? Oh, Remo, I'm sorry, thank you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, shoot. Oh, sorry, guys. That's OK. That's the fam. I'm sorry, Chris. I'm surprised my phone's going to be ringing. Yeah, Chris and Roger, the family, man. That's the fam, bro. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, man, Remo has been ultimately great, giving me skins with, I mean, first of all, giving me anything I need. Mm-hmm. You know? And then they made a skin with my logo on it for my timbales. [30:50] Yeah. They have always, you know, I call Chris up and I always bug the s*** out of him. Yeah. I need a kanjira. Chris, I just recently got a new Mondo snare drum because I'm working on this new hybrid setup and I needed something that's very versatile and the Mondo snare drum is really kind of nice. I'm really getting into it. But Remo definitely, oh my God, you know what I mean? Those people always give me ultimate love. Oh, thank you for reminding me. No, it's all good. That's the fam. So, you know, staying kind of in that area, It's like, you know, your tone, your conga tone, it's like, it never sounds harsh, but it's always cutting through. [31:33] And I think that's because you really have mastered the slap. It comes from a real place where you actually have the real technique. You know what I'm saying? So, I mean, I remember when I first came out, I started recording, I actually started finding out that you could make the slap. You had various tones in the slap, a really tight one. Depending, I mean, if you were smart enough and had the facility, you could change it up a little bit. There were a lot of many things that if you really put your mind to it, you could change up and stuff like that. But it's years and years of doing it, perfecting the technique. [32:15] Yeah. Every time, all the time. [32:18] Road dog: touring for decades [32:18] I mean, now, as far as years and years, we're gonna talk about another kind of longevity too, which is kind of the touring side of Lenny Castro. It's like you've toured with so many people from I'm talking about Fleetwood Mac, Toto, Joe Bonamassa, John Mayer. That's like, bro, unbelievable. And just the physical toll, man. It's like, how do you just keep that thing going for so many years, man? Cause that is a lot, a lot of stress on hands and wrists and shoulders and how do you do that? Yeah. Yeah. You and some, and some food poisoning here and there. When you're on the road, when you're a road dog, you have to deal [33:06] with so many variables, you know? I mean, it's, it's, it's, but it's for the love of doing what I do. Yeah. You know, I've been in situations where it has not been easy, you know, but nothing like being on the road, man. I mean, my first tour, I was with Melissa Manchester, I was just so happy to be traveling, making money and playing music. I'm like, oh my God, I'm in heaven. But the touring thing, you have to really, after a certain point, the older you get, the more you have to start listening to your body. You start pulling muscles more, you gotta start working out more and maybe hanging out less as you grow up and you start realizing, well, you know, maybe I, you know, I love [33:54] to drink, but maybe it ain't cool. So you have to learn, you have to learn what to do, what not to do. And I have also been lucky to have great tours that really kind of pamper the musicians. You know, I mean, the first Boz tour I did with Jeff Porcaro, we had a private plane. We had a four engine Rolls Royce Viscount, which is like a giant big plane with four prop engines. Oh, it was a beast, but it was our plane. We'd get on it, we'd drink and have craps games and party on the plane going to the next city, not wanna get off the plane, cause the party's still going. [34:34] Wow, man. But I'm just lucky to really, I mean, things like that are kind of make things a little bit easier. You know, Dan Fogelberg had his G5 that, you know, was piloted by a guy named Smoke Jensen, but we were babied. I've been, you know, I have done some rough tours too. I remember doing one tour, which is a van tour, me, Denny Seiwell, Caleb Quaye. We did a van tour. Oh, that's a whole other story, man. It was rough, but it was fun. It was crazy. Wow, man. What a, you just, such a heyday, man. You've got such a, you've seen so much in this business, Lenny, and it's just amazing, bro, the stuff that you've contributed. [35:19] They called him “One Take Lenny” [35:19] I mean, now when it comes to studio stuff, it's like, I don't know. I know that now kind of the whole one take mentality is pretty much gone. Like everything kind of gets done now with the thought of, well, we can just do a section of it, or we can comp it, we can splice it, we can do all these things. So I feel like the energy kind of the pressure to be great and to try to do one take level stuff is not as great anymore. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, exactly. Exactly. You know what I mean? When you were coming in in the heyday, when everybody that was there was like an assassin And it's like, you can't come in. [36:06] You don't want to be the weak man out. And you don't want to take to have to get done over because of you. You know what I'm saying? I mean, I would love, you know, I took pride. I took a lot of pride on those one takes. I mean, I was actually for a second, for a little time, I was actually nicknamed one take Lenny, you know. Yeah. I mean, but to me, it was like no big deal. If you could hear it and you understand it and you know the feel and you understand where the music's going and the structure of it, it should be easy. [36:35] You know, and your instinct, your natural instinct of, uh oh, I think it's going through the chorus. Maybe I should fill a little bit, but not too much because I know the drummer's gonna be there. These are things that, you know, kind of like they're the natural process that go down. Yeah, yeah, wow. Yeah, man. And I still challenge myself a lot of times in my studio. I go, but the way I record things, and I'll do a shaker first, and by the time I get to the conga, which I usually leave last, I know all the nuances. I'll start with a shaker that lets me get to me, kind of learn what's going on. [37:10] And if I have a chart, I'll use a chart. And most of the times I won't, sometimes the Pro Tools waveform will be my chart. Does it break there? Okay. I'll stop, you know, just imagine, you know, just imagining what it is and stuff like that. So by the time I'm getting to the congas, I know everything that's going down. Yeah, but that's me. That's the one that that that pass needs more detail. Yeah. Well, that's no That's a big cheat code. You just gave right there [37:41] Jeff Porcaro: “Let’s go to the bar” [37:41] Recording sessions and I'll still do you know one take don't take more, you know Jeff Porcaro was notorious for those I'm not doing more than three take kind of things He did not yeah I mean, in the day you had to do a lot of takes depending on who the producer was. We know one. We know one. Anyway, but Jeff would go like, hey, man, he would listen to the track after we just did this. The drums and the percussion are there. I think it's time to start overdubbing. Come on, let's go to the bar. Call us when you need us. Or let's say, we're done. [38:18] See you later. Bye. Let's go to Martoni's and eat. Yeah. Yeah. Man, Jeff commanded such respect. I mean, he would say s*** like that and people, producers would go, yeah, you're right. The drums are there. Okay. Start with the bass. Over there at the bass. Over there. Yeah. Yeah, he was. I'd be like, whoa. Yeah, I wish. I didn't get a chance to meet him, man. That's one guy I didn't get a chance to meet, man. He was a loving guy. I tell you what, he was really into promoting the young up and coming musicians. He would always stop and give advice or sticks or something. [38:57] He wasn't aloof or very hard to get to. He loved talking to new students or new musicians or musicians from across the world who were going gaga over the stuff that he did. He was so cool. He was a very, very giving and loving person. He did wonders for my career. But the whole Porcaro family, but Jeff was, we had an incredible relationship, him and I. Yeah, I mean, you guys, it showed on the records too. How close you were, you know what I'm saying? You could hear it, and you could hear it now. I was lucky, I was very, very lucky. [39:40] John Mayer, Olas Perdidas and what’s next [39:40] What is this point in time now, 2026, and beyond look for Lenny Castro right now? What's going on right now. I'm not touring as much because you get older and it's just not a smart thing to be out there. You're slowing down a little bit. I mean, I go out with John Mayer a lot. I mean, that's such a cushy job. It's ridiculous. You go, you have fun, you play, you eat good food, you get on the plane. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's just, and John himself playing with him. Oh yeah. It's a joy to be with because he's such a music geek like the rest of us. [40:18] Monster, bro. You know, I mean, I know he's the artist, but I love him like a brother, man. I mean, he's like one of the cats. Yeah, yeah. And the thing is, you know, he'll look at the band and go and look at me and say, I've been digging your s*** since I was a kid. I've been digging you since, you know, just going down the line and he's loving us. Yeah, man. You know, so right now, touring, you know, I'm not too much, not too much, but I'm working on a couple of other ventures. I was working with Jeff Lorber a lot live. And in town and I'm working with this new band that I've become a part of called Olas Perdidas which means in Spanish means lost waves and it's me and three guys from Ventura California the music is described as Mexican surf music with [41:06] spaghetti western in it. It's so different and one of the guys is this is this kid from Ventura, Mexican descent, who plays the Mexican harp and the guaracho and sings. He's like a Mexican tenor. It's beautiful. Another guy played lap pedal steel and tenor guitar, really weird. Different guitars, not your basic Strats and stuff. And another gentleman who is Todd, Hannigan, who is connected with the surf community. In fact, he's gotten a Grammy for music that he did for a documentary. And they're all surfers, these guys. These guys surf. Me, I'm a surf fisherman. I'm a surf, I walk into the surf and that's my, so we all have an ocean connection. [41:56] And we're venturing into this new style of music, this new thing. And it started to get attention. I mean, we're kind of not pushing it. We're doing it, but it's, we're doing because it's fun. And it's just evolving on its own. So that and like I said fishing a lot. No, beautiful man. I have actually. I'm working in my studio a lot too. I mean, forget semi-retired, you know, I'm still getting tons of stuff. People sending me stuff in my studio. And the recording situation, live recording, is coming back. There's more people are coming back to the studios and a lot of people have their own studios now. [42:37] Yeah. You know? Yeah. A couple of great ones out in the San Fernando Valley. I'm like, dude, this is a studio? Wow. Yeah, man. I went to one in Eagle Rock last week to do a session. And man, I hadn't seen gear like this. I'm talking about all the keyboards, you know, a Neve 5088, all the drums. Oh my God. There was some guy that had- It was unbelievable. Yeah. Like such a collection of tube artillery, stuff that you barely see. A lot of guys have collected it and kept it, you know? But it's great to see that stuff still being used. Yeah, man. For sure. [43:16] And you can hear the difference. Yeah, so I'm always keeping myself busy by the grace of God. Yeah, man, that's beautiful, man. [43:23] Advice: network and never stop learning [43:23] Well, what are you saying to the guy that's now faced with that decision of, hey, I'm a percussionist, I wanna be a percussionist, I really wanna take this to the next level, probably getting ready to get out of school. What are the tools they need to have a sustained career like you did? Cause you had a super sustained career for five, six decades almost. Yeah, well that's the problem with a lot of situations now and everything's immediate and it's a flash in the pan. You know, to answer the question about how to be consistent and stay, I mean, it's all up to you and who you connect yourself with. [44:09] You got to use the tools that are available now, the YouTubes, the videos, all that. You got to use what's happening now. Network, go to live places, live sessions where music musicians are congregating, which There are still around places like The Baked Potato. A lot of other places in the Los Angeles and all around the United States that there are, you can find them if you're there. If they're there, you'll find them. Network with live guys. I don't know how much, but as far as longevity, that's all up to you. How far you wanna do things. How far you wanna go. I mean, I'm always learning. [44:54] The one thing I know is that you're constantly learning. Don't think that you stay, don't stay stagnant. Don't think that you, okay, I know what's going on. Now give me a job. No, no, no, wait. You just have to learn more. There's more to be learned, there's tomorrow. Things will change. You're gonna have to learn new technologies, new styles, or learn new things that have been around forever, like cultural things, things from different countries. Expand your mind, you know? Get into the Indian thing, konnakol. Get into, oh, there's so much music out there in small corners of the world. You know, explore it, go out there, make it yours, be different, get out the box. [45:35] Yeah, man, yeah, man. I appreciate that. Like I said, take it as far as you can, you know you can. It's all on how much you want it. Yeah, well- The longevity is there. Yeah, well, you're definitely a big example of that, my bro, you know what I'm saying? It's like, I mean, dude, as far as the total package, it's like you're one of the scripts. You're like the script for that, man. You know what I mean? So it's like- [46:02] Turning 70 and still running [46:02] I'm turning 70 and I'm still running. Oh man, come on, man. That's beautiful, man. And I'm still motivating people too. People always, whenever I'm playing live and stuff, I have young kids going, you're amazing. I learned a lot watching you. I said, great, no problem. That's what it's all about. That's why I'm playing it. Your personality, the one thing I will say too is every time I've ever seen you play, it's like your personality comes through on the instrument. You look like you're having fun and enjoying what you're doing. I'm doing what I love. Yeah, man. I'm doing what I love, man. It don't get no better. [46:40] Yeah. I'm doing what I love. And you know, it's funny though, because one time I told my mom, my mom was always, even with her Alzheimer's, She says, you're getting paid, you get paid. So one time I told myself, now you know I'm doing the same thing now I did when I was three years old, sitting in front of the phonograph, listening to music and playing to it. Now it's just, I got Pro Tools here so I'm playing to other people's stuff. It's the same thing. I could be three years old, but of course I've evolved and I've gone to school and learned more about music. [47:16] I'm blessed to be doing what I do, meet the people that I played with and be able to take their music to different levels and just spreading joy, making their love even bigger, even if it's with a shaker or a timbale solo. [47:34] Mannes College and the chart that buckled his knees [47:34] Well, one thing I want to touch on before we get out of here is you mentioned you went to music and art and then I know we skipped to where you were working, but you also mentioned that sometimes you get music with a chart. Did you go to any kind of college or anything for music school or where did you learn that part of it? What happened was when I was a junior high school, I had this incredible teacher, Mr. Just, who just, you know, he saw what I had. He helped me get my first drum set through the educational system so I get 50% discount. This guy was a big love. He hooked me up with a scholarship to prep department of a music college called Mannes College, M-A-N-N-E-S. [48:20] There were very small colleges but full of brainiacs. So I got a scholarship. So while I was going to junior high school, my last year as a junior high school, into high school, I was going to college at the same time. On Saturdays, I would go down and get composition lessons, music history, this a lot. I also had private lessons during the week for mallet and for snare drum. Charlie Birch was my mallet guy and Sung Kwok was my solo snare drum teacher who was an amazing guy. And so I was going to junior high school, high school, and college. At the same time, I was doubling up on everything. And then Sundays, I would do gigs. [49:10] So I was immersed in music from junior high school to high school. And when I was done with high school, I was like, going to college? No, I'm ready to go. I don't want to go and take some more courses. I've done a lot of that stuff. And Mannes College was amazing. I mean, I got exposed to some amazing students that were going there. I mean, like I said, they were, there was like, I mean, Juilliard was one thing, big respect. But Mannes was just a kind of step above, but smaller. I mean, I would stay and do the senior orchestra. I would do some rehearsals on Saturday after I would be taking my class And I would go for the rehearsals. [49:56] And every now and then I'd say, oh kid, we got a bass drum part here, come help us. Oh, okay. Little did I know, man, I was stepping into the deepest end of the pool. There was this one chart, I forget who the composer was, was Hindemith. I think it was. Oh yeah. And every measure was a different time signature. And I'm just playing bass drum. I thought, yeah, I got this s***. Oh yeah, bass drum. I looked at the chart, my knees buckled. I'm like, I'm dead. And the guys were laughing and I was, I kept in there with them then, but I was sweating. [50:35] I was like, oh my God, this is some out stuff. That kind of was the predecessor to me going to doing movie sessions. Cause that music wasn't like that. It was like moving music. Totally out. So Mannes College and just the sidetrack, the old building used to be right next door to Tony Curtis' apartment building. He had a four-story brownstone every time. Every now and then during Sunday afternoon, sit out for lunch and he'd come, hey kids, how you doing? Tony Curtis! I mean, you know, a lot of stories like that. But Mannes College, big praise to that school. Oh, wow. So that's why I was ready to go. [51:22] I was like, nah, I'm not going to... And I was lucky, man, because Melissa found me within about a year after graduating. So it was very, very fun. And you know what? The pedigree is the pedigree. It's like sometimes, unfortunately, and what I think we've seen for now several decades is, people go to school, they get a piece of paper, and they're treated as if that's it. And now they don't need to really learn anything else and they've mastered something. And they're the, you know, and most of the time is never the case. And most of the time, a lot of those people that have that mentality only cycle right back to be teachers. [52:03] They never really make it in the actual industry or the world. Right into the field, as we say, yeah. Yeah, you know what I'm saying? So I feel like pedigree is pedigree, man. It's like you learned at an early age. Hey man, you know enough to do what you gotta do and take care of the stuff, and you've proved it now for 50 years. So hey, it is what it is, you know what I'm saying? It's not for everybody, everybody got their different paths. Sometimes it's good for certain people to go and expose them to a college like that, or maybe other colleges, Manton, Manhattan School of Music, the Ontario School of Percussion. [52:35] There are tons of different places. North, what's that school in Texas? North Texas where? Yeah, North Texas State, yeah. Yeah, there's a lot of different playgrounds if that's what you want. Platforms to go to where you think you wanna go. Yeah, that's fine. But you have to, you'll figure it out for yourself once you get into the situations. But that's part of life. That's a part of life. Time to swim, jump in the pool. Time to swim. Water's fun. Figure it out. [53:08] Closing thoughts [53:08] Hey man, well, Lenny man, listen man, incredible interview brother. Thank you for coming. This is historical for me because like we go way back and like I said, I watch you grow up and I'm, I mean, don't, don't, don't make me start crying. I mean, bro, I'm so, so much and I've loved everything that you're doing and you keep on, you keep on with it. And if you ever need me, I'm here for you. Thank you, man. Thank you, man. Gentlemen, the iconic Lenny Castro. You know. Yeah, man. Come on, man. Oh, yeah, man. Hey, you know what? Before we go, what's your Instagram for everybody? [53:50] Tell me your Instagram. Instagram, fishconga. Okay, fishconga everybody. Follow fishconga and you'll be following one of the goats and go just type his name in Google and you're gonna go crazy with what you see. So once again, Mr. Lenny Castro. All right, brother. Appreciate you, man. Appreciate you. You talk too, baby. Love you. Love you too, bro. Peace. Yep. Yep. [54:16] Outro [54:16] All right, everybody. Well, you've heard it. Now go investigate. You're going to see some incredible, incredible, incredible pieces of music. One of the greatest people to ever do it. One of the greatest percussionists of all of our times. And you know, there's really nothing else to be said. You know, please hit subscribe and like for the video. And if you want to, you know, further your involvement, you can join our backstage tier. But you know what? I think this interview has just done all the heavy lifting. I don't really have to say much. So I'm Trevor Lawrence Jr. This is The TrevBeats Show and we out. [54:54] It's The TrevBeats Show and we out We out, we out, we out It's The TrevBeats Show and we out It's The TrevBeats It's The TrevBeats Show and we out