Gorden Campbell Interview on
The TrevBeats Show 

[0:00] I want to serve the song. My mentality is, I'm here to serve the song. And I always say, the music dictates what I play, not the other way around. I don't dictate what the music is. That means I can hear something that I, and I know I can pull this lick off and come back, but why? Like, if it's not part of the song, if it's getting in the way of the singer, why would I do that? One thing's for sure, is that when you keep doing that over consistently over a span of time, even decades, there has to be a method and it's not by accident. And we can't take that for granted that there's something about you and your playing and how you work off the court. Cause remember, the playing's the least that we do in the situation. It's the other stuff that takes up the rest of the day. So, you know, there's something that Gorden Campbell has been doing for, you know, three decades that has kept you in the game. [0:51] Real quick, if you're new here, welcome to the TrevBeats Show. Hit subscribe so we can keep building together. And to my regulars who show up every time, I see you and your viewership means everything. If you ever want to help fuel this channel so we can do even bigger things, you can grab some fresh gear from the merch store below or jump into the backstage membership next to the subscribe button. Now back to the show. TrevBeats Show, TrevBeats Show. Yeah. TrevBeats Show, TrevBeats Show. Welcome back to another episode of the TrevBeats Show. Now, you know how we get down here. We always have people that are really part of the culture that have contributed, that have done things. And today is no different. [1:42] Today we have a drummer who drummer is just one thing, right? He plays bass, he plays organ, he produces, he writes, he's an author, just so many different things. And you know he's been playing in church since he was five years old. He went and got his jazz studies degree from Howard University and then he's just been for decades playing with everybody like Earth, Wind & Fire, Beyoncé, Mary J. Blige, Whitney Houston, George Duke, Ne-Yo. If you've seen any of those people you've probably seen this man play and he's the author of Secrets of the Working Drummer. So without further ado please welcome my brother Mr. Gorden Campbell to the TrevBeats Show. Yeah. [2:27] What's up man? What's up Trev? How you doing? I'm good man, I'm good. I gotta say for those of you that didn't know that weren't around so I just went to one of Gordon's gigs a couple nights ago at a club out here in LA we have called The Mint and not only was it packed but the music was so polished and together and then audio wise it sounded the best I've ever heard his sound in The Mint man so you know. Oh wow, that's crazy. Yeah whatever you did it was it was right on bro like completely. Yeah that's that's Jonas, Jonas is the house guy. Oh man dude balance of the of the track versus you know they always get that wrong balance it but it was right on the money man so. [3:16] I try to make it a point to thank you I try to make it a point to let them know that those backing tracks are actually another instrument in the band so mix it like is another instrument it's there so it could be heard. Yeah yeah. I do tell I did tell him that I always tell him that. Everybody trying to be an MD remember that because that's one of the things that always gets messed up is our relationship with acoustic drums and electronics and our relationship with drums and track so think of it like that tell your front of house that maybe they'll help things out so you already got a bar and we just right into the interview you're getting bars so get your pen to pad out. So you know let's talk about the foundation man you know I mean I know you played at your grandfather's church you know just [4:02] elaborate on all that give us give us the walk up. All right so my mom and dad my grandfather James L Best was a pastor of Best Simple Church of God in Christ in Newburgh New York. Newburgh is a city about 60 miles north of Manhattan so not not far but they call it upstate so upstate New York Newburgh New York my grandfather was pastor and most of you guys well some of you guys will know if you're a pastor your kids usually do a lot of the stuff at the church especially if it's not a mega church so all of my aunts and uncles actually on my mom and dad's side is a lot of pastors so all their kids play organ or drums or direct the choir or sing we're all musically inclined just because you have to do it and you know [4:48] I think we had a gift too but part of it was that my grandfather was pastor so I started playing for the children's choir like growing up the children's choir would sing one song every Sunday and then the main choir was saying and that's where the bigger guys would play the rest of the service but they would always I just remember them sitting me on the set Wow every Sunday for one song for the for the youth choir and yeah that's where it started they told me I was five I don't remember when I said I don't remember I just always remember being a drummer right so and they have a picture of me on a little toy kit so yeah it started at my grandfather's church just playing one song on Sunday that was it and so you took that all the way you know obviously you you went to high school I mean by the time you got to high school were you involved in like you know jazz [5:38] bands and other activities like that or did you you know how was that transitioning into professionalism from the time you were a kid I mean when did you start really getting into doing gigs and that whole vibe so like I said I was already playing at church and then back then I don't think they do it now but back then in fourth grade if you want to be in band you have to pick an instrument so when fourth grade came I was already playing at church right I was kind of like I was already playing right so of course I want to play drum so my mom I remember going to the music store getting a drum pad some sticks and that green book it was like easy method something for drummers okay and that was my start in fourth grade so I was like I said I was already playing at church but then fourth grade I started playing so I was in everything orchestra concert band back then in [6:27] elementary school I even sang in the chorus that glee club anything with music I was all I was part of all of it right that's how I started and then oh god no I was gonna say the the multi instruments that was also church though right so by you were also playing the multi you know keys and bass and all that still yeah I'm church okay got you yeah I had a little ear you know musically but like I said like my mom saw and actually is my mom and dad side everybody plays something or sings because they're all pastors I got it a bunch of pastors and bishops in my family so all my cousins play all of a place saying and they're super dope too but my family bought an organ in my house it was funny it was one of them little cheap lorry organs and you can push down the thing to get the sound and had a little beat thing and you got the beats and [7:15] had this many pedals right and it's funny it came with a free organ lesson the lessons to my sister oh she's older than me she's older so she got the lesson and they were like well you already played drums so let her but she ended up not playing but my uncle my mom's brother would come by my uncle Cleve come by our house all the time yeah and and he showed me a basic devotional song in a flat not a bit of pedal doom doom doom doom and that was my first I'm kind of messing around already but that was my first learning how to play just a basic song and we had an organ in my house so well that's where the organ came in and then I just wanted to play bass and I bought a bass from one of my friends and I just started playing it like yeah we had a guitar in my house I don't know where my dad got it from I have it to this day here in my house in [8:05] California Wow and I would just play it like a bass I would like take the guitar and just play bass notes so it just literally came from I guess I'm just a musician you know it's not you know like you we're just born with a musical ear and anything we pick up and spend some time on we can play it so yeah it's the DNA and is the DNA yeah you know you definitely have that that DNA and that pedigree that a lot of times you know I see in a lot of the guests there's just a lot of talent and you know coming out of the church situation is just you know I mean so many people play multiple instruments and it's like and they don't even think about it's like it's regular it's just oh yeah it's second nature yeah I'm telling you all of my cousins and I have a I have a huge family like my mom was one of 13 kids oh my dad there was 11 kids Wow like all of my cousins [8:54] and all of their kid everybody plays so like any family reunion or and we'll probably talk about my jam that I have here at my house it started at my uncle's house cuz he had a b3 and I mean in his basement and then somebody would bring drums and a bass player from his church it was in Yonkers his bass player will come and everybody's singing is like literally one person get off the organ another cousin hop on literally for probably eight hours straight the organ is like because everybody plays yeah so we'll go get a plate of food so that's where it came from just being around that atmosphere of church and music yeah the community vibe which is also which is also not I can't say it's not an LA thing but it's I think it's a little sorry about that it's my fault I think it's a little bit more of an East Coast thing you know as far as like in a southern thing for sure you [9:44] know LA is a little bit more detached so just mentality wise everybody has to drive out here it's just a different energy when it drives to right you know distance and all that kind of stuff so that whole community aspect I know that about you because for all you know we were roommates in the early 90s and you know I saw a lot of things I was exposed to a lot of stuff from that including the gospel just the fact that there was gospel drumming and a whole vocabulary and pedigree that was new to me because I came from the jazz side so you know I'm saying it's like I learned this is before gospel chops and all that kind of stuff but I learned that you know seeing you playing like that and then you put me on Gerald and all these cats and I was like okay this is a whole nother thing you know it's a whole nother world and I might add that was before it came [10:37] intertwined into what is now just modern drumming essentially from all genre that back then it was still separate you know I'm saying like if you would pull it out of that world it would be considered overplaying point-blank but now right it's morphed into the vocabulary of just drums in general so you go to a pop gig you go to a jazz gig a country gig I was at the Greek last night watching ginger play a lot of gospel influence chops in there with a country yard yeah sold out you know yeah is now here and I like to say that I was on the forefront of seeing that and that was all because of you man so that's crazy how we've seen that now go from being just kind of a church vocabulary to being the vocabulary you [11:24] know what I'm saying and a few generations and I can I like to add this you know I always feel this in my spirit yeah like for me growing up in a lot of especially Kojic and Pentecostal church kids that grew up we couldn't listen to R&B or jazz we can only listen to gospel so our early influence if it wasn't on like my mom would listen to the radio in the morning for traffic because she had to drive across the beacon across the bridge we're just not far but for then she would listen so whatever song they would play on that station I would just hear it because she was listening to the traffic but outside of that or something I heard at school or like that but in general I was only influenced by gospel so like back then it was of course the Hawkins so Joel Smith's Commission was kind of [12:09] new I was born 71 so like in the 80s Commission came out but like the whinings like that whole thing Bill Maxwell with Andre Crouch like that's who I listened to growing up Gusha on bass on all the records James Cleveland but the first record Joel was always smacking Joe's like my number one like in gospel Joe Smith is like my number one but Darrell Hayward this doesn't get said enough was the first person that I heard and I listened I know all the gospel from the from your grandfather's group from the quartet right through to all the choirs to everybody right I've never heard a drummer do chops and licks on a record until I heard Darrell Hayward on a Timothy Wright album he said he did a song called higher ground and my first cousin Al Bolson was one of the drummers that played with [12:58] Timothy Wright too so he was on the same record so I already kind of knew about Darrell whatever but that's the first time I ever heard somebody do a gospel chop on a record Wow and isn't yes so I don't think he gets enough credit for really making that thing and then Darrell started playing with Guy well he's playing with Hezekiah so I'll make it and all that nobody was doing licks so if somebody got a record with a lick please enlighten me and I'm open to learning but Darrell I don't think he gets enough credit for really starting that from high ground on Timothy Wright to Hezekiah Walker I'll make it doing the double nobody was not Joe Joe was doing stuff but he wasn't doing those rights particular what we would call gospel chop that's Darrell I think he needs more reverence just because I [13:47] don't worry you know you know you know you know what you know what time it is I was like yeah cuz I just hear people say stuff at all time and we I think we always talk down on the older gospel guys and I I'm going about to rant for two seconds out of all the genres of music you know I'm in all of them jazz whatever jazz we reverence we revere the older guys that came before us like a Max Roach or Elvin yeah or a or even a Greg Hutchinson right but in gospel if you're old they're like oh man they oh I don't know why we talk down on the people that if it wasn't for them we would not be here like I think we forget that so I ain't gonna rant too much but I feel like we got a reverence those older guys and part of his understanding the history and that's why I wanted to say Gerald was doing it and then he started [14:35] playing with guy and he took that gospel thing and I mean that's why I got it they're from Brooklyn they all knew him whatever Aaron Hall and all him mm-hmm and he took that gospel thing to R &B pop gig and was doing them same licks so to me nobody was playing like that before I saw Gerald do it yeah real talk no he you know he he definitely doesn't get the right conversation like brought up enough just in general you know saying it's like that's just my personal no no but it's true and also he's been doing this so long that it's just like a lot of people don't realize man he's been doing these gigs so long you know I'm saying like yeah it's like yeah so you know Gerald definitely somebody that's you know that's pulling up and honestly man you know it's important what you said right now is very [15:24] important and I try to impress that on this show knowing the history I think I spoke about it with Jubu knowing the history man anybody that I personally know that's great at their instrument or at music knows the history you know saying if that's yes you know whatever genre if you're specializing the genre they always seem to know that history you could sit down and talk to Robert or Terrace or Kamasi or Wynton or any of these people yeah for hours about jazz history you know I'm saying this yeah it's par for the course and same with gospel it's like this whole thing about just looking online and mimicking someone with no foundation and no history it's not the best practice because then [16:09] you are only worrying about the what but you don't know the why and that's the thing that carries you through a whole career you know what I'm saying so I'm glad you you brought that out now we talked about DNA let's talk about another kind of DNA that you have for sure which is the serve the song DNA right so you've been in all these different types of musical situations and you know man just the other night reminded me listening to how you lock in with a track bro listen man you know I'm out here but I'm gonna tell you more I it was so refreshing to hear because you everybody's playing the tracks now but the way you play with the track man it complimented it so well and it was so in pocket there was never a [16:58] moment of watch me play this lick oh yeah and I'm a slightly be a little off when I come back no it was like so deadly locked in like I said man you were locked the heck in on that so when you're going to all these different situations you're playing with tracks and all that what's your process for what are you listening to on the track to lock in that much you know I'm saying cuz you're locked what what you got to have a what is your target on the track or if you have to tell them to turn something up if they got stems what are you having them do on the track it all depends on the track yeah it depends and it's funny cuz we talk about this with the click and a lot of people have to have click for me the the track is the click like if it's a track with a drum loop it's something constant that's already going so I use that as a click nine times out of ten the click is not always lying because if it's [17:50] hip-hop or R&B the track got a swing to it that's not all the way right on the click anyway right so I try to hear if there's a repetitive something like I'm listening to that and I'm playing off of that so cuz it might ebb and flow as opposed I got yeah yeah so technically I'm listening to that and one great example of that is um when Brandy's full moon album came out what's the name of the song what about we did the TV show run MTV one that a lot of people saw yeah and and then the way you Rodney Jerkins produced it it got the yes yes like yeah yes yeah when we get to rehearsal the Pro Tools guys like you know you want me to take that out you know I'm like no that's the record right and my first thing to answer your question is I try to [18:40] embody what their record is you know as sidemen for sure they're bringing you in to enhance what the actual record is and most of the producers nowadays don't use live drum they program right so what's funny is they're trying to program drum to sound like a real drummer but we're real drummers trying to sound like the program drums it's funny but whatever that vibe of the song is that's my first thought what's the whole vibe of this song yeah all right that's what it is all right that's what I have to embody so that means me like not playing a hihat or playing just quarter notes whatever it is I want to serve the song and that I think it starts with mentality my mentality is I'm here to serve the song and I always say the music dictates what I play not the other way around I don't dictate what the music is that means I can hear something that I and I know I could pull this lick off and come back but why like if [19:30] it's not part of the song if it's getting in the way of the singer why would I do that so mentality is number one yeah well that's interesting man because uh yeah that's and that's something to be said about not relying just on the click because hey sometimes feels and overdubs and stuff it ain't exactly on the click you know it might sound like it is but it's not you know and you that's what's being presented to the audience the clicks not going out to the audience so right you don't say so your whole thing is serve the song it goes back to that serve the song so you heard it once again ladies and gentlemen serve the song the song is the most important thing now here's something that I find very interesting you grew up with your gospel background you played all kind of R &B stuff I mean obviously you're getting your chops together on R&B but then you [20:18] decide to go to Howard and get a jazz studies degree under Grady studying with Grady Tate how did that how did that happen well and it's a funny thing like where I grew up we didn't listen to straight -ahead jazz like even in junior high school and in high school they have what they call a stage band so I was in a stage band and that's where you're reading the chart and playing but it wasn't swing it wasn't traditional swing it was just songs like I can remember the first beat I learned it was like and I'm reading that so that was the extent of it but then because my big cousin Al Boson was a drummer I'll say he played with Timothy Wright whenever we would go to his house [21:04] in Brooklyn he always had all these records and he had a bunch of records and there's one with a drummer on the front like that with a drum big old drum set I'm like who is that oh that's Billy Cobham a man so when I went home I went to the record store which is non-existent now and I bought the first anything with Billy Cobham on it my first record was a Billy Cobham album I didn't know who he was but he sounded like I just saw him in front of a drum set and it was a call and I still have the record Billy Cobham with Glass Menagerie yeah and it's they're like rock fusion almost yeah it's not really strict but that was thing and then I got hip to like Joe Sample which is not traditional what is funny is my cousin literally Al Boson is texting me right now he's on the East Coast but um and then [21:49] I got hip to like Joe Sample the album Spellbound with Omar Hakim Marcus Miller Hiram Bullock let's let's let's pause there just one second if you don't know that record y 'all gotta you guys gotta listen to Spellbound it's one of those classic incredible personnel incredible performance staple records that you have to go listen to take sick yeah it's just crazy go ahead yep yep I mean I went I was an Omar fanatic after that I went and bought I had Omar drumsticks for the longest that was my sticks that I used Omar but I thought that was jazz right oh and then my homies like Mark Torres and I played in the group called Shining Light with Jimmy Childs and Mark so they were older than us like a generation [22:35] older they put me on the George Duke so I started listening to George Duke records but it still wasn't traditional it was more of the funk stuff yeah so even so I just wanted to go for jazz I just went and I wanted to go to Berkeley it was super expensive and a cousin of mine from Baltimore like you ever thought about Howard and I was like no they got a good jazz program so I'm thinking jazz is like like the Joe Sample and I get to Howard and I auditioned and I didn't know nothing about straight ahead till I got to Howard right and so I auditioned and the head of the department dr. Dawkins like he got something like we could tell he can so I literally learned straight ahead jazz at Howard like as a freshman that's when I started getting entertained like Wynton Marsalis, Elvin, Max of course everybody knew Buddy Rich he was just a name that you [23:26] just knew the big band thing so that's how I learned yeah wow so it wasn't on purpose I just went because I wanted to be jazz and my actual scholarship was in marching band I didn't even have a jazz because I couldn't play jazz. So that was Thunder Machine, was that Thunder Machine? Thunder Machine yeah T5M. So that was my actual scholarship so that's what I mean I'd like to march anyway so that's how I started marching. Yeah man well see y'all you guys listen Eric listen you don't have to just do one thing y'all you know it's like you can excel in one thing and learn other things and you could use those they come into play different parts of your life it's a long career and a long life if you're fortunate and the more you know is the longer it can extend you [24:14] know what I'm saying knowledge is the information is key yeah come on listen I've done so many different I've done so many different type of sessions and records and gigs sometime they need somebody to play snare drum if I didn't march I wouldn't have that concept of how to even do a marching band type snare drum so yeah all information is great and it helped my chops because at Howard my freshman year I played snare we didn't bounce hmm we were old school we had straps I went to high school where we had harnesses and it was you know more that traditional than I went to Howard which is a black school we got straps and we 90 degrees and playing traditional grip Wow so I had to learn how to play right-handed traditional grip even though I play left-handed because if you play a snare everybody got a match so yeah but [25:01] we didn't we didn't let the stick bounce all of our double strokes words were stroked because on the field when you got six or eight snare drums to make it not sound mushy that was their concept so we would practice putting the I do my doubles and put the accent on a second yeah so when we do it was super clean but that so saying all I'd say it helped my chops on drum set right you know but yeah it just opened my ears up to everything I did want to say this what really got me swinging and playing more traditional right is my second year Chris Dave came like in Dallas Dallas Houston all in like Sputnik they're performing arts high school [25:47] they were playing straight ahead right from kids so I was way behind but when Chris came he put me on everything it no lie Chris would get like 10 new CDs this is when CDs every week I don't know where you got the money from but every week you have 10 and we would just go sit at my house or we had our own practice rooms with little CD players and he put me on everything he turned me on to Dennis Chambers really the Tain stuff Skain's Domain like this is the one that was like dog yo you heard this oh you got to check this out you got and that's my second year is when I really dove into listening to real you know what we would call traditional jazz or real you know straight ahead yeah Wow that's crazy man well yeah yeah it's very interesting man what a what a what a story that you would never think that you [26:35] had a degree in jazz because people don't see you in that arena but the knowledge is still there you know what I'm saying which is crazy now you you know oftentimes we do a lot of time a lot of spend a lot of time being a sideman and at one point in our careers that's a goal right and then we kind of like goals work every time you get to one there's a new one so yeah no you did a lot of work as a sideman you got to the level on that probably the highest level you could be and then it's like transition so now you transition a lot to MD and producer so you know musically what you know what's the turning point that made you say hey I kind of want to step off the road a little bit and just control you know my creative spaces a little more and just you know create things and control things rather than just get called you know what I'm [27:22] saying what what was there a gig where you're like you know what I think I've topped out at this let me let me let me try this what was the reason well yes when I just said I'm gonna stop touring for a while I had tour for 20 years I started in 1993 and this was 2013 and I was like man I'm cool like it was a tour where on show days we didn't have a hotel mmm and we were and we were I had to do showers and a lot of artists do this and a lot of like country art I know other genres of music isn't standard we got a shower in the venue on show days and we get hotels on off days so we just like on the bus all day and I'm just like I'm too old for this bro like I'm used to having a hotel even on show days even if it's for three hours I can yeah we're taking that yeah ever and I was like you know what I'm cool [28:10] I'm gonna stay home but before that I've always produced and you know we were roommates I always had like an MPC I had some keyboards I had a little Behringer mixer I'm always making beats so I over the years I wanted to be a producer and what I learned quickly is you got it almost you don't have to pick one and now with technology is way more open back then there was no laptops there was no you have an MPC and a mixer and maybe some ADAS or something back then yeah and that was your way but I wanted to produce so a number of times I tried to stay home and just produce yeah because it's like as a me as a out here if they see you as a musician they don't see you as a producer like you I would do I would meet artists that I want to work with production [28:58] wise and didn't tell him I play drums sure because I didn't once they hear are you a drummer they assume you can't produce though the meeting is already down three levels from as opposed to me just playing my music and they like that's hot let's get in you know so I always try to stay even when I got the call to do Earth, Wind & Fire I actually said no and I was what an artist that was on retainer I'm like I get this retainer I could stay home and really focus on production you know I always for years was like I need to get off the road but they kept calling and I could not turn down Earth, Wind & Fire especially once I I went and sat and talked to Maurice and that was the kicker with that they called Phil I was playing with Philip Bailey all already and Philip and Robert called one day was like yo you know we're about to make a change can you [29:43] do this gig cuz they knew me you know and I was like nah you know I need to stay home I want to produce and they were like well come talk to Maurice he had a studio in Santa Monica and I went down there and Maurice White was the coolest dude ever we talked maybe 15 minutes yeah he was the most laid-back it's like by the time we've done he was like all right and his managers Matt the management their office was in his studio to go tell him what you want tell him how much you want and that was it when I walked out I was like all right I guess I'm playing for 25 yeah that was a while yeah the wild story but but to answer your question I've been wanting to stop for a while to be a producer because I realized record labels and artists if you had a musician now it's way more open but but [30:29] back then they were like if you a musician touring we're not even looking at you to produce nothing so it's a tough it's tough I mean with the technology now I don't think it happens as much but I had a conversation with Stanley and you know and Warren we went to high school together Warren Campbell he was one of the first I saw make that decision very early and saw that correlation really early like man you can't do this you can't you know I mean and it's like it's like wow man interesting and it ended up being true you know but then you know once you get established on both sides you can yes then you can you know I'm saying you can you can work it out I mean I you know I got blessed where my day job was working with dr. Dre and I'm moonlighted with Herbie so you know that was but that was after years of trying to you know get both sides [31:15] up together you know so but like like I said man you your career has been so just filled with you know a lot of different musical situations man from from George Duke to like you said Earth, Wind & Fire I mean it all there's so many hundreds of gigs in between that we don't really even talk about you know I'm saying like yeah you know one officer a month with somebody or in three weeks man it's like you know you start to it would be the list would be too long you know I'm saying so but one thing's for sure is that when you keep doing that over consistently over a span of time even decades there has to be a method and it's not by accident and we can't take that for granted that there's something about you [32:01] and your plane and how you work off the court because remember the planes the least that we do in the situation it's the other stuff that takes up the rest of the day so you know there's something that Gorden Campbell has been doing for you know three decades that has kept you in the game now one thing you haven't been doing is over playing and there's a myth of gospel chops that you know is not necessarily even fair anymore because it's part of the vocabulary I mean what like we said earlier what we accept now and what's normal now was once consider over playing but it's not anymore but how do you how do you look when you see this next generation of drummers coming up and they're just going for it you know everywhere they can what do you think of what do you what's your [32:53] advice to them as far as you know you're coming for somebody's had a career is that sustainable as a career or should they be learning other things like what now where it has gone what do you what do you look at that now when you see that I number one say and this is why I think my career has been it where it's been I've played with a lot of older guys and they schooled me I didn't always play I mean just from my whatever musicality and I think part of it because I play bass and keys and organs I play other instruments so I'm hearing it as it's playing so I'm knowing that these licks probably won't fit or it's just gonna get in the way but playing with older guys that I really respect it so when they said something to me even if it was harsh and I had this conversation with [33:39] my daughter just last night I'm like cats is too sensitive because when somebody's telling you something they're literally trying to help right and it's like well it's the way you said it and I was like I don't care if it's the way I say it and I always tell her this like and this is sidebar but I'm like if I go hey man there's a pothole right in front of our house don't hit that pothole yeah you're gonna hit it because the way I said it or do you not want to mess your car up like it's listen to the message so when um when I was at Howard I played in his band Larry Seals Quartet Larry was a sax player and his brother was a drummer before me incredible drummer like I would listen to their their shows learning the music I was like yo who is that like he was killing but I took over I'm a young kid I'm in college I'm learning a bunch of stuff [34:25] so of course I want to everything I'm practicing in the practice room at school I want to try it on a gig from double pedal on down yeah and I'm digging I'm killing cuz I had chops I grew up you know I know how to play he'd be like hey hey let me holler at you he'd be like yo do you realize like do you realize you went in the beginning of my solos you're playing all over the place you're not leaving me room to see what I'm hearing so I could solo on my saxophone or do you realize that you're rushing when you do a feel and then you slow back down when you come to the groove or I have bought a piccolo like why would you bring that to this gig that snare don't even fit this type of music bro so he made me think of it in a different type of way and that's what I not trying to match myself to like a Kobe or Jordan or the greats basketball wise but a lot of it is their mind or LeBron the way they think yeah they have the [35:15] athletic ability to do whatever and a lot of them do but I think what separates them is the way their mind is how they see angles how if I back him up and it's been like that one so that's how I look at music is more about thinking and a lot of it came from like Grady Tate from Larry Seals from all these different people telling me how to think like think like this like if you're doing this or you're doing that even if you're doing a solo sometimes it's not just chops sometimes just play the melody of the song you're soloing over or over the Latin thing maybe do some it's not always about just playing fast like be musical yeah you know so it basically came from somebody schooling me and I was humble enough to listen like it out you know I'm a young I'm green I'm open to everything to learning and so it comes down to just listening [36:02] to people everybody's not always hating when they're trying to tell you something some people are actually really trying to help because they see you had a potential especially gospel guys we just us in general we have a natural talent that is like you can't even right we all have it right so the rest is just refining it into and knowing like sometime I just feel like wiling out sometimes right even at church some Sundays people be like what got into you like I just felt like right yeah it's so funny I work with Paul Jackson Jr. a lot with well he plays at church with us sometimes but yeah a man called jazz funk soul with Lord Jeff Lorber Everett Hartman Paul yeah and so I play one way with them because it's like fusion is jazz this moved at all that and I'm playing one way but then he comes to church and he would be like bro why [36:50] don't you play like what it is so now it's a joke what he'll text me like are we got do we get jazz Gordon today or a gospel Gordon because sometimes I just feel like I said there really is a bit depending on the song and the energy especially at church the energy in the room that Sunday yeah but you might get jazz Gordon if it's the song is jazzy or I might feel like just wiling out just straight chopping in so it just depends but it's good to have all of that in your toolbox so when you need it you can pull it out and just because you don't play it doesn't mean you can so I would do the message to the young generation don't always get it twisted sometimes that might backfire you call it on and all that and og and then they go sit in somewhere gotta be careful with that though because we out on the show and everything we could play all social media don't think that the time hasn't been spent [37:42] yes yes we can still do it so I've got a story you said Michael White so one of my first or was shy in 93 but 94 you got on a gig because Tim Carmen and Mark Walker with Gerald Albright and let out the way it was Gerald and then Layla was featured artist so it was Gerald and Layla yeah we opened up for maze the summer of 94 Frankie Beverly amaze and Michael White was a drummer yeah so I would see him play amazes just straight you everybody knows mazes meat potatoes yeah so I don't think I purposely did it I just never heard him chop so I probably underestimated him and you know they would set us up in front of their rig right so one day we're sound checking that Mike was up there checking this kid and after our sound check me and him started going back and forth yeah man when I tell you he's cool me I [38:32] was like I will never do this again I will never underestimate cuz cuz that gig he's on he that's why he was on the gig he played that gig to the tee he's probably one of probably my favorite maze drummer and I love all of them cuz all our homies and they all smash but Mike with that gig oh man but that sound check I was like I'll never underestimate somebody older me older to me ever again they're old enough and disciplined enough to not care what you think like some of us even if I'm at a club and I see all my homies there of course I want to impress them but my discipline tells me like that that's not serving the song so I rather you think I'm whack but I played the song then you think I'm dope and I didn't right so that's what they do and I learned that day like okay yeah and ever since then Mike schooled me on so much even the fact [39:19] that I have a studio it's cuz when we got home Mike was like come by my house and I went by his house and he had a studio with Mike Preeze and bro I was like yo I gotta do this and this is 1994 when I went to his place yeah yeah yeah well no and you know it's such a nice guy man and so much mm-hmm done so much and so much information man like it was a blessing I have him on the show um yeah the other thing with that what you just said though cuz you kept going back to what's right for the song and you know there's something that I that I kind of talked about which is the gate of ego so the ego is the gate that blocks everything from coming in you know I'm saying so when you put up that barrier you know I'm saying my dad used to always say you know yeah a close hand never lets anything out but also never lets anything in no close fist [40:10] actually when you put that barrier up it really is detrimental because everyone piggybacks off the generation before us and everything is in everything we do that's why we have history that's why we have yes you know that's why when you go to be a lawyer all you're looking at is thousands of hundreds of years of cases it's all about exactly what happened before us and if you're just like I don't need to see all that I don't need all that I'm just gonna do me what kind of lawyer would you be if you can't cite a case actually five years ago so exactly you know I'm saying so it's the same thing in music and you know there are some young cats that are killing and they got the right attitude and you know they're gonna have a crazy career you know I'm saying but there's some cats that are just like ah man you old I don't need to hear them what you're talking about and okay cool all right cool you know it's like let's see where [40:57] that gets you in 25 years you know listen I could say that I can hear it yeah I can hear somebody play eight bars and I can tell if they know history or not or they know where that beat came from that's that's a Harvey Mason beat that's a gabby or the Vinny I can tell in eight bars when I hear a drummer if they respect and know the history because they play they approach it differently it's a different yeah I don't know why it's not something I try but I can hear it yeah that's real talk now yeah regular day-to-day life are you actually left-handed I'm ambidextrous so okay writing and everything you do I write with my right hand uh-huh I write with my right hand and I might be left-handed but back then they probably just put the pencil on my right hand I start but everything [41:45] else is left-handed pretty much well it's I'm ambidextrous cuz I shoot basketball right-handed I play baseball righthanded but I eat I brush my teeth oh wow thing I do with my left hand interesting cuz that bring me to the cake cuz you're one of the people like Billy and I want to say Simon Phillips who else plays oh Lenny white Lenny why any white you play open and so you know will will Kennedy yeah of course play you play open I just talked to a couple seconds ago and it's like listen man it's something to be said about that you know because when you set up right and you don't have the obstruction of a ride it's something about it man you know I've seen I can't do [42:31] it but I definitely can see that I can play oh I can play hi had a little bit open so I see how that frees up so much you know I'm saying on the kid what was your decision to do that cuz you set up right obviously your first drum set or whatever it was set up right but what made you say I want to put the right over here what made you do that there was no decision I played at the church I played one song at my church right so whatever they did it was that you can't switch the kid around during service so as a kid I just sat down and this is the crazy part cuz there wasn't no it wasn't video back then so what I didn't I didn't I never unless they were on like David Letterman or something like that or TV so I didn't see all of these drummers play I didn't know Billy Cobham was left-handed I didn't know Lenny white [43:20] was left-handed right I didn't realize that what I was doing until I audition at Howard the band director was like that's wrong you can't play like that nobody ever told me playing like that so I didn't make a decision I just played at church and that's just the way I played and I didn't realize till I got to audition for Howard that that's not normal even though all the other drummers at the church play like that nobody ever said I didn't even think it never computed in my brain that that's different than them playing right until I went to audition and the guy was like that's wrong you can't play like that and and the director of the jazz department was in the room too and he was like not like he he had something he could play like I could feel yeah and that's he'd be good and that's how I got in telling somebody yeah come on man that's that's corny yeah come on but that was the mentality but I got through it and I [44:10] got accepted and the rest is you know history or whatever but exactly yeah so I didn't make the decision to do it that's just how it always went crazy that's crazy yeah cuz you know well you know it does seem like it's like it's just it's the equivalent of when what so many people are doing now is putting a hi-hat on the right you know a closed hi -hat or a cable hi-hat and you feel instantly how open that feels man it's just you know it's really comfortable and really cool and the one thing that people don't talk about is it gets out of the way of your back of your backbeat stroke so yeah the other thing we're playing like this and you know there's this it could be this lock up you know I'm saying but when you open it up suddenly that stroke is just super consistent I never got changed so or you know in Charlie White you know Charlie Watts RIP you know he [44:58] would lift that yeah yeah you know but you know it just and I got a vibe through that exactly exactly interesting man so and what I had to shout out one other drummer that we didn't say and there's a few more left-handers I know yeah like Greg Clark can play but Chris Johnson who I'm about to say Chris's feel even when he sat another night yeah it's Chris Johnson no but actually played lefthanded too sometimes but truly ambidextrous yeah but like he can play he plays open-handed sometimes but Chris when I think of feel yeah I think he's underrated cuz whoo I had just probably bounced bro I unite right before I left I actually asked him to I was like bro you play open right he's like yeah I was like that's what I thought that's what I thought and then I had to do it feel I'll do one of the best bro one of the best yes [45:51] yeah one of the best of this crazy yeah yeah no no all the homies we listen we got flowers are given out to all the homies bro it's just gotta do it it takes the time it takes you know notice the schedules and all that but we are not missing any of the contributors bro because mm-hmm it's that important and we need to have this as a historical record when I'm gone gone this the YouTube still gonna be here so yeah you know this is this is it's a it's a responsibility as well for these stories no other people that you know are contributing so now let's get a little bit into some of the other things so rhythm Alliance let's talk [46:38] about that what about the rhythm of rhythm Alliance I mean I know what it is but explain what it is and what's your have to do with it or what it was whatever you know so rhythm Alliance was basically a bunch of friends that just was like yo we should just do some shows mm-hmm together like clinics or drum shows but I kind of came up with the concept and I just called them all one by one like yo I got this idea I want to do it and everybody said yes and the concept was and it didn't get to where it could have been just because everybody was super busy at that moment but yeah like all of us on our own drum set we're not just shedding like just a gospel chop shed we got actual parts made up almost like a drum line where each drummer plays a different part but it interlocks it's like like a drum line [47:23] but on drum set right and we would mix that up so there's a couple things that we did we did drummers for Jesus and Dallas a couple times where we had these things worked out we had an intro where we would come in playing cowbells pots and pans how we all stand and we all go to our kids and we got a loop plan and we like and we take turns solo and we do add the shed element but within it we got licks and we're making up but I got them got to get to get almost like a blue man groove or something but the homies like just over the years you know how we are we all friends back in the day during them Aaron Spears rest in peace Margaret McQuadey rest in peace Jay Williams from DC Gerald sometimes Jamal Moore they would all stay at my house for them like I'm talking about every couch somebody sleeping on a couch one year I have my studio upstairs [48:13] one year Marvin even slept on the floor like under my console in a sleeping bag but cuz it was just now I'm cost too much to get a hotel and it's great so we would all be here and we would just be sitting around tapping on stuff and just talking before we would go to NAMM get back at like 4 in the morning and get up and go back go to that so it was like our little crew yeah that wasn't really set up they just all stayed at my house and so when I had the idea that's who I called so it was Marvin McQuadey, Aaron Spears, Gerald Heyward, Teddy Campbell, Nisan, Stewart and me and we did a couple ones where Chris Johnson I mean not Chris Johnson Chris Coleman played with us a couple times yeah yeah you were there you were there the one when we did it the conga room cuz your son played cuz Bud played yeah that's right yeah that's right and Thomas Lang too yeah Thomas Lang played that one too [49:02] yeah so that was our idea yeah that's dope yeah that's super dope and also and also uh-huh so also I did it because it's like we need to give back and that's always been part of my spirit and we can talk about the National Black Musicians Coalition which I'm a part of now which Bud is the president yeah it's the same concept we were getting we would get drum sets cuz all of us endorsed companies like DW Yamaha I think yeah I was with Yamaha by then mm-hmm so like Fernando Pullum we actually donated on the Rhythm Alliance we got him a drum set I had a Yamaha drum set we donated it we got some congas and stuff cuz he had his school back then exactly so that's what it came back from paying it forward but we can do shows and use our whatever celebrity to give back to the community so that's yeah kind of where the concept came from well shout out to Rhythm Alliance [49:51] and shout out to because that was a that was a vibe when it was happening shout out to the National Black is it musicians or drummers coalition musicians musicians coalition yeah yeah my wife be wearing the hoodie all the time and I was there you were we were both there this year for the thing and I will say that one of the guys there has just signed with DW and that was the brother Ryan Strickland so who killed it that night you know saying so yeah you know we had to make a few calls and so yeah you know this is the kind of thank you happy thank you I mean I'm not part of the you know but I am you know saying it doesn't matter we all are yes like come on that's just what we do right so yeah you know cuz these people are gonna be the future of the of the instrument and the vibe and these cats we can clearly see they gonna have a [50:43] career you know I mean yes it's up to us to not be on some hater junk we got to extend that olive branch and keep this thing going or else it will not be going you know what I'm saying like cuz that's how we got on we got on one of the older guys that had a great reputation was like you know Carl Gordon yeah yeah do this gig with such-and-such and that's how it works like anything other than that you trying to hoard gigs for yourself that's gonna be your only gigs yeah where we give gigs out and they come back and people always come back man so many people that I don't even remember doing this like bro you got me my first gig when I moved to LA I don't remember cuz that's just my personality like I can't do this he can play call him right I know he ain't gonna make they're not gonna be calling me man your boy I know I'm not [51:28] gonna get that cuz he's responsible right so we have to do it we have to do what the cats did for us exactly it's important that that happens man and you know we pay it forward as it were so let's talk about let's see man there's so many things Gordon I mean first of all this whole interview a lot of it I didn't have to even you know I know a lot of right I want y 'all to know it you know I'm saying because we were roommates just the quick recap in like 1993 and you know I was exposed to a lot of stuff I hadn't learned about then you know on the gospel side cuz I was mr. jazz back then and you know it's like it ended up being you know just a long friendship man and I've just seen what [52:13] you've been doing you know I've seen you raise an incredible artistic creative soul you know that I happened to see the other night in Morgan and you know just man that moment of her when you with the birthday cake I mean those of us that was on the outside that saw her be a little baby that was emotional yeah so you know it was moving man it was moving to see that man that was beautiful so you know like I say this not to cut you off not to cut you off yeah you saying I put you on like the gospel thing but you put me on to the count to the LA jazz scene cuz a lot of people might not know that there is a scene right you brought me to Fifth Street Dicks on the jazz club and that was Billy Higgins Club yeah and I remember that he had something to do with it yeah we're all stage around [53:01] the corner and then you know yeah 50 dicks was this guy Richard and this whole crazy story he was homeless and he got a jazz club it was amazing story man amazing story that was the center of culture you know I'm saying in LA at that time but you turn me on to that yeah and I think the kit from watermelon man was there that he used on the Herbie record yeah yeah yeah yeah you brought me to Ndugu's house the first time yeah and then I saw him months later and he was like mr. Campbell and I was like I was tripping cuz he remembered my name and he I was like you remember me he said yeah he said we watching like we watching saying you know the older cats are saying who the new yeah that's working yeah so you turn me on you introduced me to him and then your dad had blue palm studio [53:47] and you had that that one closet with like 80 drum sets I remember all of this so you turn me on you had the PV kit you had the dad that the bebop the unfortunate thing is I still got him dog on drums and it becomes a thing I got I got four storages in LA and one I don't have to say it's like you got mad storage it's burdensome but you know I try to you know I look out for for my people coming up and you know that's that's where I am man cuz I at this point I don't need no more drums bro I'm just I'm good you know I mean I want to make sure everybody that deserves it is on you know what I'm saying yeah so mm-hmm yeah man well listen G it's like um I gotta say man the other night was great to see especially ahead of this because it was just killing that horn section man where'd you find them man [54:38] they was on it bro they were on it man I I met them playing with DW3 do you know DW3 I don't know Spaghettini's okay okay Brian Siono was the MD Brian found him in Covina West Covina playing in front of a pizza shop Wow and invited them invited them to come play with DW3 cuz DW3 does Spaghettini's twice a week I see so okay I think Streeter was playing and I was subbed for Streeter and I'm like yo who are these horn players yeah and before that I always had regiment on a lot of stuff and their regiment just got busy with Justin Timberlake sure so these guys were around they were new so I started using them they ended up playing on my album yeah I mean that I just been using them ever since and they always around they're always willing to learn and yeah yeah do they have a crew name or a section C [55:26] -Town okay C-Town Horns for Covina cool man well they sounded really good man and they were you know everybody in there they all had their iPads and they was all uniform like it was professional man that was that was you know a lot of people don't understand it's a hard feat to pull off a gig like that with that many people especially when you're playing even a little bit of original music let alone you know original music with tracks and you got vocalist man just yeah a testament to seasoning as an MD and somebody that connects things you know I mean so kudos right for that bro I'm glad I was able to make it for sure thank you and I will say and I don't we didn't talk about this yet but my idea is to be an artist as opposed to be a sideman [56:12] because now that's the role I'm playing with my band Gorden Campbell and friends and actually Gorden Campbell and friends is just the name of that the thing I do the record yeah yes I put a record out on rope-a-dope conversations in 2020 and now I have a new one it's conversations live there's a live video like I lost snarky puppy how they do in the studio with an audience I did the same concept I did at EastWest Studios with a full audience full band I brought in some of the artists on my album is like Kamasi's on a song Terrace Martin Alex eyes Lee Sheila II Oscar Cartier Paul Jackson Jr. me Slade Peter Collins like I kind of modeled like black radio a little bit like I'm doing my music but I got these singers that I work with that I write the music and then see if they want to write on it and we split the writers that kind of thing but so that's [57:04] where the concept kind of came from like I'm doing all different styles of music but I know who I want like this song beastly got a sing on this and I just happen to know these people right and they came through I got one with a with BJ the Chicago Kid and PJ Morton is a do-it-crash on it it's crazy on Saturday morning yeah so it's like a lot of different things I just called on all my friends so now that's my focus outside of being a producer I've been working with a few artists as a just producing and writing for them but um nice Gordon Campbell and friends is we come in like we got a couple festivals coming lined up so watch out for us because that's that's my goal now at just to do the artist thing and really make it big and start doing the festivals around the world yeah you know come I see a lot glass [57:49] for all that that whole funny you say that because you can kind of in LA you know you see a lot of people trying to you know level up and you kind of can feel that like me seeing the groundswell from the time you put your record out you know four or five six years ago to now to seeing a few of these gigs happen but I wasn't able to go to going I think I even said this to Chris like oh yeah he's ready for festival now like this is time for this is time for festivals I think I did say that Chris and it's like you know you could feel it so it's not far-fetched and I know you guys about to work like crazy because you're providing something everybody in the audience man even with the song choice everything they were feeling good it was the right songs that don't get [58:37] played too much but you're still like oh my god is my jam and then it was played authentically you know what I'm saying and had the integrity right so yo bro I listen man I think it's beautiful matter of fact give all your handles out for booking and social media everything so everybody that wants to get in touch with you and I'll also put it in the comments but if you want to set tell people where they can get in touch with you we can do it okay probably the easiest way is my Instagram I just cuz I hadn't been on my website in a while to just today I'm like getting my Gordon at Gorden Campbell calm back up and running I kind of like trying to fell off the website thing but I talked to the person today like I today we're gonna get this so but they can hit me at Gorden512 on on Instagram okay that's g or r g r r d e n 512 [59:27] okay on Instagram and just send me a message and I'll hit him up I'm on Twitter to G camp ENT okay or just search Gorden Campbell and just make sure they know g or r d e n sure okay yeah man well that's beautiful bro I mean you know I wish you very great things ahead cuz it's really a part of a professional thing man and it sounds and looks great but yeah man well thank you yes sir well on the way out anything you want to leave for the for the next generation even though this whole interview is something right but you want to you want to tell them you know like the you know someone that's really trying to do this thing right now give them a few points always be open to learning and I tell my daughter this even if it's a little [1:00:15] kid they might be able to show me something that I ain't never thought about or they approach it a different way so I'm always open to learn I'm not I'm never like yeah I've been doing this 30 some years you can't tell I'm never that so I would say always be open to learning new things learn your history and not just drums but just music in general and just life in general you know just learn your history because it shows in your plan yeah you know and learn to appreciate all different styles of music I think that's what kept me working too I can do a jazz gig I did a session a couple months ago with a guy and I was playing it was straight ahead and the bass player didn't know I could play straight ahead he was tripping but just be open to playing different and I'm not the greatest but I'm good enough in each style that I could actually do a gig I do a gig with my Latin brothers we do baked potatoes [1:01:02] sometimes and I always go like why do you call me right when all these cats are in audience that sit in that a wave that a real Latin guys he said because they can't play the funk you can do both you play the Latin good enough to you to play that and it feels authentic but when we do the funk is both and basically so be able to play all different styles and just have a trough full of information in your in your in your dictionary or whatever you would call you yeah in your toolbox so you can pull out if it's if it's straight-up church and I'm Kojic like Kojic Kojic I grew up going to all the conventions that's how I know Spud we know each other since we were 12 I've been knowing Doobie since he was like eight or nine we literally so I'm a church kid I could go straight church straight New York Church yeah but then I can go jazz I can do [1:01:51] to just like just be able to do everything so just keep your your mind and your heart open to everything yeah and you'll be able to work when I'm not doing 1 hour, 2 minutes a pop gig in an arena I'm touring I was touring with George Duke back then so I would go from straight-up arenas to jazz the jazz clubs in Europe so it's only because I was open I was able to be able to pull all them styles off authentically right so just be open yeah yeah that authenticity is the thing man you know then don't it's a key and the worst thing you could do is accept a gig for the money that you're not prepared to do that is harmful for your career and it's not a good look because everybody sees that it's just for the money and you were not the right thing and you knew it and you accepted it anyway no bueno that's no good that's no good so and bad news travels fast so if [1:02:43] it's whack we're gonna know within a day especially now with social media yeah it travels faster than the good news something to happen but something bad we are gonna know within by the end of the day everybody you heard about yeah that's so yeah man that is absolutely true you spaz out on a gig or you man get kicked out of a club or some it's gonna be light speed it's light is light speed and it might even be yeah it's like unbelievable how that happens man how that works but but yeah well you know again man I appreciate you for stopping by man and it's like sharing your journey with us bro and trust and believe a lot of people we talked about everybody's pulling up because that's we got to do that man we got to tell our stories yeah and and and yeah in [1:03:33] the world climate that we're in right now man you know you went to a historically black college you know you're very very in tune and you know you know it know what's going on with our people we're going through a huge problem right now you know with this whole voting thing and you know for all of us that are in the trenches out here doing what we do it's just important that we also use our influence to you know try to better our situation and keep people aware you know I'm saying it was going on I know that you know you know you are a beacon for a lot of people so I think the way you move around will be inspiring man and you know hopefully something can happen you know maybe musicians maybe we need to get [1:04:21] together and do something in the name of you know what's going on cuz I don't think people understand the gravity of it yet you know what I mean but it is heavy yeah it's heavy we're pretty much nullified the whole civil rights movement at this time you know yeah yeah it's pretty much and that was a plan all along that was yeah it's like so and we tried to tell people this but what I realized is not sorry I didn't cut you off what I learned is people don't care until it hits their front door like if it doesn't affect them like I don't care but then something happens where they like to get turned off because the bill is so high because a bill that happens and now all of a sudden they care it's like we have to care even if it doesn't affect you and I'm and I'm not doing a partisan thing to anybody at this point because people go why you get political I just want people to do well and be at peace [1:05:10] whatever your political beliefs are that's my thought so I'm always gonna go for what I think even if it might affect me negatively if it's if the majority of us are doing well and we're at peace and we can take care of our families yeah everybody has different ideas on how to get to that point but for me that's my ultimate so that's what I go for and that's what I you know and when I see something opposite I'm gonna speak on it like yeah that doesn't seem like it does how did it benefit us right it was not you know yeah well so that's where my mind is I think that that concept you just said to it there's a lot to it because you know if we go through history creatives have usually been on one side of the political spectrum pretty much throughout history you know so yes you know maybe some [1:05:55] you know country artists at one point in the south you know but I'm very tiny piece right so if you go through history so to me the whole concept of musicians on you know you can't get political I feel like there's something loaded there and that mentality really it's been a part of this issue because we're such a huge population and all the right influence that's wielded by these people and they're always quiet that only helps one side and people don't understand right and now we're seeing the effects of the most influential people never speaking on this and it's like oh they'll hear when you don't speak I was like oh well they'll take care of it and now guess what happened guardrails are gone first thing they did erase everything that happened from the civil rights movement so [1:06:43] exactly the dialogues important you know you're not it's nothing negative like to be politically aware is not negative and as a musician no aired of it these young musicians are scared of it and you don't have to be that's a tactic you know what I'm saying yeah yep it's a system it's set up by the system and what people don't understand is no matter what you do like I just you made me think about when they told LeBron shut up and dribble was like right no because we have a celebrity or because we do it doesn't mean I'm not a US citizen all citizens if government built for the citizens right not the other way around they're supposed to serve us not serving them so if I'm a citizen no matter what I do outside of that I'm still a citizen I still have an opinion wrong what happens so I don't like when they tell people you should not have an opinion now I think some uninformed people that I [1:07:33] get on that's very passionate and saying some uninformed stuff I think they need to chill but they don't have a chance to have their own opinion right or wrong and so when you say don't get political I I'm not with that either cuz I'm a citizen I have an opinion so take it or leave it yeah it's very coded you know it really it really yes thing it really did a thing and that stigma really silenced a whole bunch of people I think in all the recent elections more than what we know and we're a huge community and I think it really worked yeah and now it's allowed for the balance to be different enough for every agenda to be worked out so on their side so you know and like I said I don't I don't I'm not one way or the other I'm about the issues you know I'm saying so yes you know I you know I'm saying so that's [1:08:20] what you think that's what it is yeah I think part of it is because it's so one side of the other what's the word it's so polarized one either you're that so polarized yeah that people are afraid to speak up because if I say one thing and then half of my fans or my people that listen to my are different and I've seen it I've seen certain companies or whatever say something like we love black people or black lives matter and I'm never following you again I'm selling all my symbols I'm doing this I'm and it's like listen that doesn't make whatever it's so polarizing people are afraid to say stuff because we're so polarized to me you might have a $1 180 [1:09:06] difference opinion from what I think but I'm not gonna say your whole thing I'm just gonna say that's your opinion right opinion and you're entitled to it I'm not gonna totally cancel you but so many people are so quick to cancel man that is that's why people I think are afraid to speak up yeah even me I don't always speak up like on Instagram because I don't want to argue all day like if I say something that somebody might disagree now I'm checking it all day because now I got to respond so a lot of time out of my own piece I just don't respond that doesn't mean I don't think something and have an opinion but yeah I think a lot of people are just afraid of the pushback from the people that are on the other side of the spectrum you know it's been a great conversation I'd love for you to give us something you know for the next generation [1:09:52] just on the way out keep learning never stop learning and always be open to learning something new even if it's not music related or drum related or just learn as much as you can that's what the people that I know that I admire know a lot of or a little bit about a lot of stuff and it makes you more worldly the more you travel to you get to see the world and you get to just be open to learning you know and from a musical standpoint learn as much history as you can learn different grooves learn who played on what and like you said earlier all of the real cats from anybody you can ask them what it McCoy Tyner play on this one record and if they play piano they could tell you or what it Elvin play drums on or what if any play like know that history so deep that like [1:10:39] any one of us from Ronald Bruner Chris Dave any one of us if you say what it such-and-such play or Calvin Rogers what did Joe Smith play on the Hawkins until I found the Lord he can tell you deck beat we study it we're like nerds for our thing and you have to be nerdy right that to really get it so learn history and be open to everything and be open to somebody telling you something yeah you know what I'm saying don't be mad and say he ain't just listen to it but even if they are hating you can still get something from it sometime they might be coming from a hatin spot like this the words he's saying might still help you yeah just be all baits open the gates yeah open the gates you know we say that just like you just said be open so now think about it like be open open them gates of ego yeah the stuff come in you know I'm saying [1:11:29] yeah so ladies gentlemen it's been a pleasure my guy on the TrevBeats Show Gorden Campbell thank you my son thank you man thank you having me man so much information and man and I'm going to sit down with you yeah sure and we neighbors so we need to go break bread I know I was up there the other day on the bike and I was like wait ain't that Gordon's crib right over there and I was like I'm gonna pull up on the bike one of these days man for sure just hit me yeah I'm around all right bro yeah okay man later okay so if you got value from this episode do me a favor hit subscribe drop a like and share this with somebody who needs to hear new episodes drop every week Trevor Lawrence jr. this is TrevBeats Show and we out it's the TrevBeats Show and we out