Ash Soan Interviewon
The TrevBeats Show 

ABOUT THIS EPISODE From recording with Adele, Seal, Billy Idol, and Hans Zimmer to tracking drums inside a converted windmill, Ash Soan has built an extraordinary career around one essential quality: feel. Ash joins Trevor Lawrence Jr. for an in-depth conversation about his musical beginnings, the art of recording, and the decisions that make a great drummer indispensable. He shares stories from sessions with Lionel Richie and Hans Zimmer, explains his unconventional approach to drum tuning and groove, and takes us inside the equipment and techniques behind his signature sound. The conversation also explores artificial intelligence in music, including clients sending Ash AI-generated drum demos as references. Rather than fearing the technology, Ash offers a thoughtful perspective on creativity, musicianship, and why the human experience remains essential to making meaningful music. TOPICS COVERED • Ash’s early musical influences, Sandy Nelson, and meeting Art Blakey • Building a career as one of the UK’s most sought-after session drummers • His converted windmill recording studio and its unique acoustics • Heritage Audio equipment, microphone techniques, and ADAT recording • Playing with feel and musicality rather than strictly following the grid • Mark Taylor, Cher’s “Believe,” and the introduction of Auto-Tune • Drum tuning, snare placement, and leaving space for the vocal • Recording with Hans Zimmer and Lionel Richie • Interpreting producer feedback and adapting to different artists • Bringing J Dilla-inspired rhythmic feel into pop recordings • The importance of charting and preparing for recording sessions • AI-generated music, Suno drum demos, and Sting’s perspective on creativity • Career longevity and advice for the next generation of musicians • Recent and upcoming projects involving Snow Patrol and Rod Stewart • Ash’s drum equipment, including Gretsch, Zildjian, and Vic Firth FULL CLEANED TRANSCRIPT WITH TIMESTAMPS Based on the supplied timed captions. Timestamps correspond to the episode video. Spoken remarks are retained, including the opening preview and closing credits; punctuation, paragraphing, obvious repetitions, and unambiguous transcription errors have been cleaned for readability. Automated captions may contain names or phrases that require final listening verification. 0:00 — COLD OPEN [00:00] Although I've had sessions here where people have sent me AI-generated drums and gone, "We want this." And it literally has "Suno" written in the WAV file name—the title of the f***ing file. And they aren't embarrassed. They're like, "Oh yeah, we got these drums off Suno. We want a similar sort of sound and feel, and obviously we want you to do your thing." And I'm like, "Okay." Well, that is definitely happening to me. People just don't seem embarrassed by it. I've probably done sessions like this before, but people kept quiet that it was an AI-generated drum demo. But Sting nailed it for me—absolutely nailed it—with this: [00:58] Someone asked him, "Are you concerned about AI?" And he went, "No, not really. AI has never had its heart broken." Real quick, if you're new here, welcome to The TrevBeats Show. Hit subscribe so we can keep building together. And to my regulars who show up every time, I see you. And your viewership means everything. If you ever wanna help fuel this channel so we can do even bigger things, you can grab some fresh gear from the merch store below or jump into the backstage membership next to the subscribe button. Now back to the show. [01:29] The TrevBeats Show, The TrevBeats Show. 1:48 — MEET ASH SOAN [01:48] Welcome back to The TrevBeats Show. Now today we're getting into rhythm, sound design, you know, like record making, you know, and all the discipline that it takes to do that. My guest today is literally one of the goats of drums. And I'm going to also say one of the goats of a whole region, which is the UK. You know, we all have our heroes and people that we know that do things in specific regions. And although he's, of course, worldwide, but definitely one of the fixtures and staples of the UK region. [02:24] Now I've got a lot of things to say, but one thing I could say is that he is one of the most tasteful and relied upon drummers on the planet. And today's guest is none other than Mr. Ash Soan. Ash. Ash. Welcome to The TrevBeats Show my friend. Thank you so much, Trev. It's an honor. It's an honor man. Thank you so much. All good. That's very kind. I appreciate you coming. I mean, listen, y'all. It's like, it reads like just everything you thought it would be from Adele, Seal, Dua, Hans Zimmer, which we share in common working with Hans, Billy Idol, Tori Amos. I mean, he's been the first call for everything. And you know, beyond the music credits, I think one thing we need to talk about is the incredible architectural credits of this incredible windmill, man. The home studio, the windmill, It's just like unbelievable and the sound is now kind of, you know, it's synonymous with you and with that structure. [03:40] Sure. You know what I mean? So it's like the tone, you know, we'll get into that more, but it's like, this is more proof that tone to me trumps a thousand notes any day. You know what I'm saying? It's tone as well as forever, right? 3:55 — EVERYTHING YOUR DRUM TEACHER SAID IS TRUE [03:55] Yeah, well it's controversial what you're saying, but I agree with you wholeheartedly. You know, but you know when you start getting to the age that I'm at, you start realising all that stuff that your drum teachers and older drummers told you when you were younger, it's all true. You know, playing with musicality in pocket and maybe just holding back where you want to throw that fill in, just maybe wait until the next time. All of those things, you realize, oh yeah, that's the stuff that actually really matters in the end. [04:36] Well, you're coming from a place now with a very seasoned and proven career. But let's go back to some of the earlier times, which are what got you into playing and how did that whole thing, your foundation, how did that start? 4:53 — LET THERE BE DRUMS: HOOKED AT 10 [04:53] When did you start playing drums? I was 10. And my dad, who sadly is not with us anymore, but he played me a record when I was 10, like an actual record, called Sandy Nelson, Let There Be Drums. And I don't know if you've heard that. It's like a sort of, I guess it would be described as surf music. It's like electric guitar, 60s, you know. Right. electric guitar and drums. That's it. Wow. And it's called Let There Be Drums by Sandy Nelson. Apparently he's a pretty eccentric character and he's still around Sandy, apparently. [05:33] Oh wow. Yeah. But the sound of this kit, like, well I said to my dad, I distinctly remember, I was like, what's that? And he went, oh they're called drums. And I'm like, I wanna do that. So I just, and that was it, it was literally, that was the thing that triggered me, the sound of it. It was like captivating for me as a kid, you know? And I bugged my parents and then by the time that my birthday came around, my 10th birthday, basically they crazily bought me a drum kit. [06:12] I mean, who'd buy a 10 year old a drum kit and say, it's okay to put it in your bedroom, you know, which is what I did. And so that's what started off. And then my music teacher at school, he was a piano player. So by the time I was 11, I was in a jazz trio with him, playing brushes and doing standards and doing gigs at 11 years old with him. And earning sort of like 15 pounds, which back in 1981 was actually quite a lot of money. You're like, that's like $500. [06:47] No. It's amazing. Ironically, it's kind of what people are getting paid now, but that's another story. Yeah. And so I was doing gigs pretty quick. Alan Jones, his name was. And we were doing all sorts of gigs. And I really loved it. And I dived into jazz properly when I was a kid. And again, my dad, just no musicians in my family, but he would pick up on the names that I was saying. 7:21 — SITTING ON ART BLAKEY'S KNEE [07:21] So I remember when I was 14, I went to see the Jazz Messengers and I met, we met Art. Like I was backstage, there's a picture, there's a picture of me somewhere sat on Art Blakey's knee. Wow. With Wynton and Branford Marsalis in the background, you know, like I can't find it because obviously it's a real picture. It's somewhere in a drawer. And then also that same year, my dad's always see Buddy Rich. I was really into jazz. A big band and when all my friends were listening to Madonna in the early eighties or whatever, I was listening to Woody Herman. [08:01] I was sort of quite a weird kid. Yeah. And Max Roach, like, are you okay? Yeah, yeah, I just like this weird sort of music, you know, for a teenager in the 80s, you know. Right, right. And then of course, by the time I was 16, 17, I started getting into The Police and more obviously more rock bands were starting to sort of come my way. And Stewart Copeland for sure was one of the sounds, again, the sound that dude made and still makes, sort of made me go, wow, what's going on with that? Which of course, introduced me to reggae in a roundabout kind of way, you know, because I grew up in the middle of England, in the countryside in England. And then by the time I'd moved to London in 91, I then did start playing reggae properly, you know, but London still is a fantastic melting pot culturally and musically, you know? [09:07] I'm just so glad I'm of the age that I moved there when I did in the early 90s. Yeah. You know? 9:16 — SPLASH VS. CHINA: THE CYMBAL WARS [09:16] Well, it's interesting you say that because the Stewart conversation sometimes, I've had this with a few people, but I, Yeah. We never think about this, right? But it's like, in my opinion, from the music I've studied, the life that I have lived with drums, I feel like Stewart and then Weckl were the reason that we all play splashes. I feel like splashes were not, they're back in the big band days, there were a few, but it really, those two people really put the splash on the level, man. I feel like- I know. I know. It's interesting. I have seen footage of Buddy playing. He's got a couple. [10:08] Yeah, of course. Buddy had one. Back in those days for sure, a few big band guys did, yeah. And then the splash sort of went out of... Manu Katché, Manu, absolutely brilliant. that was, you know, he talked to them, he talked about them rather with so much sort of love, you know, calls the sounds of his cymbals, the sounds of everything as colours, Manu talks. It's like, it's a palette for him, which is, you know, what another drummer, what a fantastic, another sort of European heavyweight Manu. But you're completely right. And And Stewart, it's funny, I worked at a music shop in 1987 in this little market town in Shropshire, which is in the middle of England. [10:59] And I remember me and the, he was a bit older than me, one of the guys that worked in the shop. We would set splash cymbals up all over the store and then put The Police on, right? And then as we randomly walked past the splash, just go, just try and get them as sort of in stroke out of time as possible with Stewart. It was a lot of fun. But you're right. You're absolutely right. I love that noise too. I mean, it's an interesting one. You know, with songwriters, that's a sound they don't like. [11:37] China cymbals, that's a sound they don't like. You know what I mean? Do not bring a China cymbal. I mean, I don't know what Nash feels like, but certainly some writers in England, if you turned up with a China cymbal, you're straight back out the door. I think, go ahead, go ahead, what'd you say? You're just straight out, and a splash as well, you'd be just straight out. Out. No, you're the wrong guy. If you play those cymbals, you are the wrong guy. That's how people thought of it. It was crazy. [12:14] I mean, we're different now. It's 2026 and people think about it in a very different way now. People are much more accepting that we've got, that people have got an eclectic musical taste but they can still make the right musical choice. Yeah. I think Nashville, any cymbal under 18 might be illegal. This is what I'm on about. What is that? Is that an A custom? Like, what are you doing? You know? That should be buried underground for three or four years, and then you can play it. Yeah. So, I mean, listen, man, you know, that's an amazing story. [12:57] I mean, it makes sense that you've been in it and that you've been around and influenced by the sound part of it so long, because that's what, you know, you know, I noticed, because obviously, that's one of the things I've done the most of is make records. record so when I see someone else who really puts the time and cares about the sound and like it's almost a dying art now you know what I'm saying it's starting to kind of go 13:21 — INSIDE HIS WINDMILL STUDIO [13:21] away and speaking of sound it's like you know I want to know the story of the windmill man because it's like you know right it's like a circular rustic kind of space but I'm turning into something. Please. I'll show you around. Right. So I don't know if you can see this picture. If you can see that. Can you see that? Yeah, I can see it. Yep. So that is actually what it was. So that picture was taken in 1860. That was taken. Wow. So we're in this bit. There's actually some guys just sat there, these guys. And I find all sorts of stuff, let me find here. So this is like, I don't know if you can see it, but it's, it's a clay pipe. So the guys that used to work in here would smoke these really long pipes, like, you know, about, and I find them all over the ground outside and old beer bottles, Victorian beer bottles. So we're in, we're in the sort of the bottom part of the windmill. [14:31] So I've got this, I've got my vintage Gretsches here, and then I've got a newer Gretsch with another rig this side. Ah, separate rig, got it. I've got two rigs, yeah, so this is a vintage rig which I've got set up all the time. And that's like, you know, sort of hip hoppy sounds and more contemporary loopy sort of sounds. And then this is a much more traditional sort of songwriter, British pop kind of sound, rock and roll sounding kit. And then, you know, all the snares and blah, blah, blah. [15:09] Yeah. And then this beautiful, yeah. That's incredible. With all that wood, man, wow. Yeah, so, yeah. Go ahead, no, go ahead. You can tell the story. It's all good. So, basically, all that was here originally with these brick buttresses, which would have supported the wooden structure. There's four of them. One over there and a long one over here. So it's circular. But when we moved in, there was a tree growing up here somewhere and it was just a ruin basically. Wow. And most of the, during the war, most of the bricks had been removed by the villagers to make, you know, to repair their houses or build. [15:56] So they just came up here and took the bricks away. So we were just ended up with these just the four buttresses. And then I, next to my house, I've got some barns, which was what we were gonna turn into a space of some sort. But it's quite a big space. So the price tag was quite a lot to get it just air, air, you know, watertight, right, was like 300,000 pounds or something, let alone put in the gearing. It was a lot of money. And we just very, very fortunately, a friend of my mother-in-law said, Oh, you should meet my friend, Bunch. And this guy specialized in green build. So he made the, he said, look, we could make the walls out of straw bales. [16:45] we could use reclaimed wood for the floor. We can use reclaimed wood for the ceiling. This is a really cool sort of like, it's about 12 feet up there. And yeah, so the walls are this thick. I don't know if you can see that, but they're about that, they're almost a foot and a half thick. So that's, yeah, so that's straw bales. And the render that's on top of it is an old-fashioned kind of soft render. So in here, there's no parallel wall, so there's no reflection. Right. And everything's soft, even the bricks soft, you know, they're old-fashioned bricks. [17:31] They're very...it's like a very...you can see they're all sort of crumbling because, I mean, you know, they're solid, but in comparison to modern concrete, everything's really, really soft. You know, so it's a very warm noise in here. Yeah. It just makes, you play a snare drum and there's no, the frequencies are nice, you know. Wow, yeah, that's incredible. Even with a bit of, you know, if you're hitting something hard with, that's high and got a bit of crack, It's still a nice sound that it's making. Yeah, I mean, that's the other thing too with that is that this is really what people have paid for over all the years, is the structure. [18:18] Of course, there's certain boards and pre's and all that, but you can replicate that, you can get close. There's a lot of variables with that, but the things that really are tangible are the rooms. So when you start off with a great room, It's like, man, the rest just becomes layer and layer and layer of just getting the great sound, man. You know? Absolutely. Well, for me, it's a pyramid. I think it's, if I'm honest, I think it's drummer at the top. You got to get, you know, you know as well as I do. [18:51] I've seen Steve Gadd, I mean, that dude can play a cardboard box and you'd be like, yeah, okay, that's, yeah, that sold. I'm good with that. So drummer at the top of the pyramid, for me the second thing would be the drums and the drums have got to sound pretty good and tuned well. And then certainly third for me, the room's got to be great. And then everything else, like you say, there's so many variables. It's like, well, microphones, you can spend the rest of your life fiddling around with which one you're going to choose. [19:26] And then match it with a pre. Well, you know, you're going to be as great as me by the time you figured out which one 19:32 — THE HERITAGE AUDIO RIG & THE ADAT TRICK [19:32] is gonna work best. Exactly. So now going back to the technical side, what do you, as far as the rigs, are there separate rigs in the form of just separate pre's in all or is it separate computers as well? Just completely separate? No. One computer, two sets of pre's. So over this side, I've got this is this is my Heritage Audio. I call it my Heritage rig. So this is there's a company in Spain that make Neve copies, they're called Which is ADAT Which is and this is a Compressor this like a 660 Fairchild compressor they make This is the Motown motor city EQ which is a copy but Michael Brauer gave them, he's got two and they remade that. [20:30] So that's with the aid of Michael Brauer and then these are sort of again sort of Neve copies but the ADAT thing is the thing that's sort of like you know in medieval times it would have been like this is witchcraft. how can you put a little cable that's this big from there over to my Apollos and eight channels of audio work seamlessly. It's the ADAT thing, it's mind blowing. So what's great now is you can get, and also the new Neve, which I've got this side, so this rig, so that's the equivalent, this Neve 1073 OPX. [21:14] That is also ADAT. So regarding my interfaces, I've just got two Apollos. I've got an X8P, which has got some preamps in it, but then also an X8, and then a bunch of Neve lunchbox, 1073s and stuff. But my point is with the ADAT thing, you can get yourself a relatively cheap interface that's obviously ADAT-enabled. And you can get eight channels. And it's like, I mean, this, even 10 years ago, really, you couldn't properly do that. Right, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, and then, you know, the clock can even make it even more, you know, make it even sound crazy or get a clock. [21:59] You know, it's like unbelievable right now, man. What's going on? I, it's bonkers. So I think now, I think, and like you mentioned earlier, you alluded to the fact that there's microphones now being made that for $300, you're getting something that's as good as a, you know, as a 3000 pound Neumann. Sure. Absolutely, man. You know, really. Yeah. Especially if you know what you're doing and you have a great room. It's like, man, it's a, it's a great time to be alive. So I've been in here, it's going to be about 15 years now. Um, when I, When I first jumped on it, I had to spend quite a lot of money, but now, uh, yeah, you know, these, and, and I predicted it Trev years ago. [22:47] I, I, I realized with the social media thing and Instagram and all that. And, and then what's happening with studios. I, I realized there's going to be kids that are getting a very cool sound in their room. Yep. And yes, it might not be Abbey Road Studio Two. but it will be a thing. And that is that, I scan through Instagram now and it's absolutely mind boggling. Some of the noises that these kids are making, man, it's happening. It's really, you know, it's wicked. Yeah, and it's like, you know what? [23:25] The thing about it is they've studied and they're doing efficient setup. Sometimes they don't have a lot of microphones And even just the setup to video, it's just really amazing where the technology is, the barrier of entry is a lot lower. You know what I mean? You have all these other factors now, all these other treatment things. When we first started, there weren't all the snare overlays and all the things. You could just take any drum setting, get it to sound halfway decent now with a few little things. It's just a different day. 24:02 — GROOVING AGAINST THE GRID [24:02] So now when it comes to the grid in modern pop and versus say like pocket or something, it's like a lot of times you track drums or songs that are heavily programmed, right? With a lot of quantized stuff. So how do you approach feeling what the groove is against, sometimes programming can be a bit rigid. So how do you approach feeling the groove against that rigid type digital production, you know? Well, there's one producer actually 24:38 — CHER'S 'BELIEVE' & THE FIRST AUTO-TUNE [24:38] that I work with quite often, his name's Mark Taylor. He was the guy that, do you remember Believe by Cher? Sure, of course, the first Auto-Tune. Yeah. Right, that was him. So Mark Taylor discovered that, but it's 1997, Auto-Tune dropped that week that he was working with Cher. Wow. And she was in London, his studio, and she went home one night, and he basically turned on this plug-in, and did the first thing that all of us creatives do. What happens if I do this? And he turned it up to Max. Wow. [25:21] And then a voice, obviously a voice from, and did that thing. And it's like, actually it's quite cool on the chorus. Anyway, cut a long story. The next day she came in and said, look, I'm going to play something. I've done something to your vocal. Let me know if you like it or not. And he played it and she loved it. And the rest is history. And now we hear that sound everywhere. But Mark, I'm pretty sure, is one of the first to do it. Anyway, that is a side note. That fella I worked with quite a lot. I did a track with a guy called a British singer called James Morrison, and he did a duet with with Nelly Furtado called Broken Strings. [25:57] And there's quite a bit of programming with that. But what Mark did, and he does every time with me, I played, I played to the click and I played to the programming. But what he what he will do is move. He will put the program in time with me. Hmm. Wow. Rather rather than gridding me. So it just fits with the stuff. So he'll move some of the, he'll make it, so it's got a little bit of ebb and flow. And I thought, I mean, you know, you know what we're saying when we're like, I think there probably are drummers that play completely to the grid. [26:40] And I remember back in the day, that was a saw after thing, if you could, the guy that was, the guy that was closest to the grid would get all the work. But now of course, we know that is, now it's nonsense, because you just press one button and you can get the kid who's just made your teeth sound like it's in time. So now it's all about the same, thank God, the stuff that we love, the nuance and the movement within the song. So that's how Mark does it. Regarding if I'm playing with people who's not that produced, other guys, I will, I mean My grid playing is pretty good. [27:24] If you're referring to maybe if there's a programmed loop and you want it to be locked, I won't touch it. I'll let them decide. So I'll play as well as I can to the click. like always, I have to say I don't really listen to the click. I just because I don't know about you, but certainly when I get a pop track, everything is in time. Sure. Like the vocals, the keys are in time, the strings are in time, the singers in time, everything's in time. Yeah. You could almost do it without a click. [28:07] If there is something that might be a little I'll let them sort it out. But, you know, no complaints so far. I just sort of, my time's pretty good after, you know, 50 years, nearly a plan. Right. Well, I mean, you know, that goes without saying, but there is something to be said about how that producer does that to make the music, even the programming have a feel of a little more air. You know what I mean? Isn't it cool? So like if you think about, if you think about a very, very rigid shaker, maybe that's programmed, but if you just move it a little bit to the, just nudge it to the drums, it's kind of cool when the verse comes in, it just comes back. [28:57] You know, we're not talking about absolutely huge amount of movement, obviously, but that nuance of just coming back a little bit intensity. It's the summit call about it. It's a very good idea. And I think maybe other people do it. I don't know. I know Mark does that every single time with me. He will not move. He will not move me. Well, and that's there's something to be said about that. I mean, I feel like yeah, a lot of stuff now that I'm hearing, you know, not only is it is it gritted, it's like it doesn't matter what drums we play because they're going to replace them. You know what I'm saying? [29:33] It's becoming like so crazy. I mean, I'm not gonna say any specific place, but there's a specific place where it's like, man, these drum sounds always sound amazing. It's because they're not, they're coming from the same place, you know, plug in somewhere. Just get the performance and then, you know, replace the drums. You know, listen, I, you know, obviously we're both proponents of technology. I love it. Nothing to be said about it. I just think it needs to be used tastefully and responsibly. And we'll get into more of that later. 30:05 — WHY HIS SNARE NEVER FIGHTS THE VOCAL [30:05] But I wanna talk to you about something that a lot of drummers have different concepts on, which is tuning, right? So when you're tuning, so it's one thing to just tune a set of drums to sound good. I mean, drummers often, we tune for just what the acoustic drum sounds like. But when you're tracking, we have an end result, which is how it sounds on the record. So do you tune for the microphones or do you tune for just the drums sounding in the room, how they are? And that's that like, how do you approach that with head selection? [30:39] You're dampening. How do you appear to that part? Well, well, I mean, I sort of tuned for the song, you know, like, so, so there was a, there's a load of years there in the 2000s where I had, I just had a, I'm looking at it now, but a Yamaha. It's such a basic Yamaha Maple Absolute snare, and it still has a CS Batter coated on top. And I detuned it and I put all sorts of stuff on it, and a lot of drummers would go, what's he done to that drum? [31:16] It looks horrible, because it's got tape on it, and blah, blah, blah. But man, I use that thing on so many records, British pop records. And what I discovered was that the fatter backbeat, that sort of thuddy, you know, sort of 70s snare sound that wasn't too far away from the kick frequency. So you've got, it's just not a big high tuned snare drum, which has got a big leap from the kick, if you know what I mean, pitch wise. it's not that far away, which meant that it's operating down here. [32:00] Both this kick and the snare are operating in this sort of like bottom of the pond kind of area. And most vocals, male and female, are way above that. So my snare drum would never get in the way of any vocal. Even like, like, like Seal or James Morrison or Cher even, that would always be, would give the vocal as much space as possible. So I went, there's so many recordings that I've got, Robbie Williams, where it would be set fire to the rain, same snare drum. It's like a, like a sort of fatter sounding muted, muted snare to give the vocal that that space and it was something it was definitely a conscious thing and I sort of still do it now that one of the snares that I use on my my sort of my main sort of poppy kit. [32:59] I will I will go there first and see if people see if people will buy it and take it. So shooting wise, I would that's kind of one of the standard things I would do. But now you know what happens of course is people send you, most of the time people will send you some kind of programmed drums that sort of sound like drums. And then you've got to figure out do you want me to try and get as close as that tuning wise and then that could be you know an hour trying to make your kit sound a little bit more like that. [33:37] Or like you've already suggested, it doesn't matter which kit I use they're going to put a load of samples on it and you know, but tuning wise, I mean, yeah, I mean, I, I, I think each, each drums got a kind of happy place where they, where it sounds the best snare drums and, and toms and stuff. And you can, what I tend to do is I, when I put new heads on any drum. I'm a Remo endorsee so I can do that thing where you crank them until the glue sounds like it cracks. And then I'll leave them like that for a little while and then I'll slowly detune the heads until you can sort of feel it getting like, oh yeah, there you go, that's the place it wants to be. And that includes bass drums, toms, snares, whatever. [34:36] Yeah. Yeah. And that's real. That's real stuff, man, because drums have temperatures matter, climates, humidity, all these things matter. And it's just the moment and you got to tune it for the moment. And that might change from what you had the day before. But if you're tuning for the song, you're always going to end up in the right place. I mean, just that concept of having the snare closer to the bass drum frequency staying out of the way of the vocal frequency. You know, some people may not have ever until this moment looked at recording drums like that. [35:10] Some people might just, you know, I'm seeing, I notice a lot of things today are visually cued, right, for drummers. A lot of people are doing stuff based off what they see and not the reason behind it or what they're hearing. It's like, oh, I see a bigger snare drum with some tape on it, so I'm just gonna do that, you know? Or I see a piccolo and I'm gonna do that. Or I'm gonna put all this stuff on the snare drum because I saw somebody else do it. And that might be cool, but I mean, you know, it changes, man. And it's like, you know. [35:41] Yeah, it might not be the right musical choice for the track you're playing or the music you're playing. You gotta think about that stuff. Yeah. You know, like. 35:54 — TRACKING FOR HANS ZIMMER & LIONEL RICHIE [35:54] Yeah, man, I mean, now speaking of that, what about when you're working with somebody like Hans Zimmer? Like, what's that process? Like, what is he listening for when you do a track for one of his productions. The last big thing I did with him was in London, and it was a few years ago actually, the last sort of big thing I did. And it was a Lionel Richie record, and Pino Palladino, me, and we tracked a place called British Grove, which is Mark Knopfler's studio, so fantastic studio, on British Grove, which is just off Chiswick High Road. [36:35] Fantastic studio. But that kit, they had me in the booth actually. They dried me up quite a bit. And I had a couple of snares. One was really cranked and dry and 70s actually. And then another one was fat, but also 70s. And with him, with Hans, what was quite interesting really was the groove thing he was most after. He wanted it to feel right. And the sound, the engineer was a guy that I worked with a lot called Steve Lipson. And the drums are always gonna sound, it's always gonna be fine. [37:20] But that session particularly, Hans was much more focused on the way it felt. He knew that the sounds were pretty close, but he didn't really fixate on the sound. It was the feel of it. It was a lot of fun, that record. I really enjoyed it. And of course they stuck it on the shelf. I think they spent hundreds of thousands of pounds on it. Who knows? It might come out at some point. But Hans, I don't know, have you worked with him? Has he been in the room when you've been working with him? [37:57] Yeah, I only did Man of Steel with him. So yes, it was him and Peter. Oh, yeah, that. Him and Peter Ashford. That would be. Yeah. Yeah. And was it, was Steve Lipson? I feel like he probably was, because that name sounds familiar. Yeah, that name sounds familiar. I think he mixed it, I think, Steve. OK, yeah. Yeah. So we did a group of drummers. We did several sessions. And I also have a good friend who's actually been on the show, too, that works with Hans very closely, named Steve Lindsey. [38:26] And, you know, it was an interesting experience because of the way it was, you know, all these drummers in one room playing the exact same thing. 12, I remember. Playing the exact same thing. So that was a great experience. And, you know, man, it's amazing. The funny thing also is I did a whole Lionel album back in 2004 called Just For You. Right. So we got two things that are now bringing us to closer together. Yeah. Did your Lionel record come out? It did, yeah, it did. It didn't do much. [38:59] You know, and I got some writing on a couple things too, but it was fun just being with him, man, and seeing him, and I have close friends that play in his band, so, you know, been hearing some stuff lately, so man, Lionel, get well soon, man. We've been hearing some things, and I hope your health takes a positive turn, brother. 39:22 — DECODING VAGUE PRODUCER FEEDBACK [39:22] But listen, I have to now go into something that also I have a question because of, I love to see how people handle this, which is client translation. When we're doing remote stuff, you know how it is. It's like, you might get some of the most vague directions, make it more vintage, give it more vibe. I want more of a pillowy sound. How do you interpret producer feedback? Like say if it's somebody you haven't worked with a lot of times and they're just sending you something. How do you interpret that? [39:59] Well, what I try and do is I try and get him to give me some kind of reference. Right, right. So, just send me a couple of links to Summit on Spotify that the kit sound is something that you, it's close or whatever, right? Because what you've hit on is one of the skills that people don't realise is integrally important. Being a session musician is being able to be, you know, now of course it's remote most of the time for me. But when you're in a room and somebody comes in and they go, yeah man, it's got to be like punky, but like Steely Dan. [40:44] Okay. And then you've got to try and what, what is that they mean? You know, so, so I will go, well, let's, have you got any reference either feel wise and or sound wise. And that, and that, that is a really good way to get to the place quicker for me. Yeah, yeah, that's right. Yeah, that helps. It really does help. But I do know what you mean. How do you, luckily, some of the people that I work with, they trust me now and they let me do my thing. It's amazing that's happened to me now. [41:25] But you're right. Brand new people, when they're asking for stuff, it's really interesting. And one of the skills you've got to develop is trying to decipher what people mean. And often, they don't. A big one that happens to me, for instance, and happens to everybody is someone will go, oh, we want a reggae groove on this, or we want a kind of jazz feel on this. And you give them absolute proper straight down the line, feel that they've just asked for. And they go, no, no, no, not that. They don't meet, they don't want that. [42:10] They want it to sound a bit like a reggae feel or a bit, they want it to sound a little jazzy but if you play a real feel from, sometimes they'll go this, that's not actually the thing we want, we want a taste of it. And by the way, I'm just talking about mainly talking about pop music here. Right, right. Yeah. 42:37 — JUST A SPRINKLE OF J DILLA [42:37] So the one that you, a lot of people, it's an interesting time, but the whole J Dilla thing. Sure. I'm obsessed with it because I love the way that it feels and I've always loved the way that it feels and it reminds me of the way rock and roll is and the way New Orleans music is and where you've got a mixture of swing time and straight time together. Yeah. Barry, for instance, or whatever. And one of the reasons that I that I think it's important for me as a musician to understand, at least try and understand what that is, is eventually a British pop star who has got no knowledge of J Dilla, no knowledge of that music whatsoever is going to go, I like that, that drum beat when it sounds like the guy's a bit And then someone like me has to come along and they go, do you know what I'm talking about? [43:40] And you go, yeah, I think I do know what you're talking about. And so you've got to have some, but if you give them absolutely grade A Dilla, they'll go, no, no, not that. They just want a little sprinkle of it, right? Right, right, yeah. But you've got to know what that is to be able to give them just a little touch of it. And I'm actually hearing it now, that thing is starting to happen in mainstream British pop music. You're starting to hear that, that feels starting to happen. Yeah, it's funny, man. [44:13] This conversation right now, you just inspired something that I'm going to build. It's just, you just inspire, because I have a thing for that called TrevSessions.com. And it basically lets, when people want to hire me, they just, it's fully just, you know, You fill out everything, you upload your music. I get an email and there's a server and the whole nine. I'm gonna now make a literal decoder. So I'm gonna say, describe exactly what you want in this box. And then when I get it, it's gonna have things that I understand based off what they're saying. [44:53] You know what I'm saying? Yeah. The reference thing is brilliant. I mean, you think about it. every single time I'm in a room and someone will go, no, you know, the snare sound like off, you know, and then literally you got the engineer kicking Spotify up and finding that track. And then the next thing, hey, presto, it appears in front of your ears and you go, oh, yeah, yeah. And then you've got to then run in and try and get as close as you can. I mean, it's one of it. It's one of the things that I really love about our job is that, you know, you've got to, you've you've got to adapt and you've got to be on it, man. [45:34] I love it. Yeah, you know what? I'll share it with you when we're done. One of my apps that I created, and this is just because we're talking about this stuff and it makes so much sense. I'm not really just trying to plug my apps, but the reality is what you just said, I have an app called Snare Lab, and literally you can say, who played drums on, what's the snare drum on Billie Jean? And it's gonna find it. And then you could say, I have a Pearl export, how can I get my sound to snare the sound like that? And it's gonna tell you how. [46:04] Yes. Yeah. So, you know, for all the drummers that don't know those equations on how to get the sound, that's why I created it because it really can be helpful and it gives you tuning directions in the whole nine. So, you know, just stuff like that because what you're saying is also part of the equation. Like we have to know how to synthesize and interpret this stuff as when we're doing remote sessions. And honestly, that's kind of a deal breaker if you don't get it right. I mean, it might be the last time you work with somebody if you deliver something that's not quite what they meant. [46:41] It's not a thing. Yeah, and you know, this brings to something else to mind, Ash, it's like as the technology's moving, it's very helpful. But I'm wondering how much time has been wasted on those back and forths when we could have just had a chart. When it was like, boom, you know what I'm saying? It's interesting how that happens. Like, yeah, we took all these steps forward, but back in the day it was like, arranger, this is what it is. Here you go, drummer. Here you go, bass player. This is it. [47:14] Three songs in three hours, we're out of here. Have a great day. There wasn't a lot of variables. You know what I'm saying? So- 47:21 — ALWAYS CHART IT OUT [47:21] Yeah, well now, I mean, I have to say, when I'm on sessions, the first thing I do, I will chart it out. Of course, yeah. Absolutely every time, just to be the one that already has got the arrangement down. And however, I'm sure you've got your way of charting, everybody's got their way of doing it. I remember doing it, I'm very fortunate. I've just finished another Rod Stewart record, but there's a Rod Stewart record I did a couple of years back and I shared the drum seat with Ferrone. I went into the drum booth he done a session that day and I went in with my charts to do my my tracks and steve's charts from the floor. [48:05] I picked him up and there was so beautifully written i'm like man i feel like a troglodyte compared to Steve in every way but. But his charts written in pencil, beautiful, like, oh man, like works of art. What I really regret not, because he just left them, he'd done the session, he just left them lying around on the floor. And I wish I'd picked one up now and taken it home, but just so beautifully written because he comes from that world, Steve, where, you know, it's repeated tunes and you've got to know what you're doing. [48:47] straight away. With two or three plays, you've got to know what it is. And after 50 years of doing it, you get very, very good at writing charts out and being able to do the thing that he does. But it's amazing. I was thinking about your app just a minute ago about the snare sound. I'm looking up there, I've got a 1976 Supraphonic. And I think about that particular era and that particular drama, which I'll show you. Yep. Supraphonics, man. Oh yeah. I got my crew over, too. I just gotta have those. [49:31] Well, because, you know, Bonham was using one. Yeah. At the same time, Carlton Barrett was, you know? Right, right, right. It's one of the most worthwhile. Yeah, Carlton Barrett was playing the game on it at the same time The bottom was literally building a house, you know, it's amazing Yeah, so when when kids say to me, I want to get a first time's wrong. I go we could definitely grab one of them You know what? What a brilliant instrument, you know, yeah for sure. It's what's the whole grills. Yeah for sure Yeah, holy grails you gotta have I mean, yeah, you also are 50:16 — WHAT AI IS ACTUALLY GOOD FOR [50:16] You live in both acoustic and sometimes hybrid stuff and sample stuff, but then comes along this era that we're in of AI, right? So I ask all my guests this, what is your take on AI, not necessarily only, what do you call it, where it's creating music? Not that type of AI only, just in general, is it something you see as a possibility to enhance anything you're doing? Generative is the word I was going for. Not just generative AI, but AI in general. I mean, is that something that you were, did it make you worried about anything? [50:59] I mean, what do you think about it? I'm not worried about it. It's, I'm finding it, I'm working on a project now that is, it's a musical project. It's nothing to do with creating music, but it is really helpful in making in helping me make decisions much quicker and much more much more defined decisions. It's just literally for instance it's doing the maths, you know, it's doing the math and it can do it very quickly and it can figure out the probability of your decisions regarding your business. It's that side of it I find is incredibly helpful and And it really knows one of the things actually that, you know, is a touchy subject in is fees for musicians. [51:51] Mm. Yeah. Going out on the road like what are people getting paid? Yeah. For real, not not not people pretending that they're getting $40,000 a week. Like, what are they actually, what are people genuinely getting? Because it's really, it's quite a good idea to know. But I tell you what, I asked, I know what the going rate is in the UK now. It's relatively depressing. But I asked AI and it knew completely, it got it completely spot on. What the go-in rate is for arena level, theater level, stadium level, extra musician, are you just like a touring guy or are you in the band? [52:42] It was absolutely amazing. I find that is without a shadow of a doubt pretty helpful, knowing that side of the business and what are people getting regarding publishing cuts? is actually what is actually happening for real out there. Not in, you know, people, Oh, we used to get this. That's not good enough. You know, it's like, it's, I find that side of it really, really helpful. I'm not scared of it regarding music making. That's at all. 53:20 — WHEN CLIENTS SEND SUNO DRUMS [53:20] Although I've had sessions here where people have sent me AI-generated drums and gone, "We want this." And it literally has "Suno" written in the WAV file name—the title of the f***ing file. And they aren't embarrassed. They're like, "Oh yeah, we got these drums off Suno. We want a similar sort of sound and feel, and obviously we want you to do your thing." And I'm like, "Okay." Well, that is definitely happening to me. People just don't seem embarrassed by it. I've probably done sessions like this before, but people kept quiet that it was an AI-generated drum demo. But Sting nailed it for me—absolutely nailed it—with this: [54:18] Someone asked him, "Are you concerned about AI?" And he went, "No, not really. AI has never had its heart broken." Yeah, true story. And that's something that we talk about also, which is even in a interactive sense, I mean, we're reacting off of each other. it has to go by historical data. It can't go by, it's not in the moment reacting on stage or whatever. So that's always, I mean, listen, I'm not saying that things aren't gonna change, but right now, as we see it, it seems that will stand true. [54:58] Now, after we have hundreds of millions of people feeding AI about their heartbreak stories, it might know how to assume what the energy of a heartbreak is. You know what I'm saying? So it's just a, it's a growing thing, but as it stands right now, I feel like the people that really are contributors like yourself and like everybody I interview never have an issue with it because it's only people that haven't done anything yet that have the biggest voice about it. It's like, I was telling somebody the other day, why do you care about what AI is doing to songwriters if none of your songs have ever been used to train it. [55:39] And you don't even have any songs out. It's just an interesting mindset. I feel like people should be spending their time developing the craft as opposed to trying to be on some soapbox talking about AI. I mean, it's here, it's very helpful if you use it in ways. You can use it in nefarious ways. Thankfully, I'm starting to feel and see that those are starting to be a little bit, some kind of regulation and notice and trying to, you know, with the labeling we're seeing now, which is cool, you know, on the social media. [56:10] Like I love that. If I do a short and there's AI in it, fine. Let's say that it's AI, you know, it's obvious to me, but I guess somebody out there might need to see that before they, you know, I don't know what that does, but hey, I don't have a problem with that. So, you know, it's like, it's an interesting thing, man. We're in the early stages and you know, people that have been doing stuff as long as you, that have seen these different iterations of the technology come, I just like to ask that question. 56:40 — LEAN INTO THE HUMAN [56:40] And now it leads me to the longevity question for like the next generation. You know what I'm saying? So for a guy who's trying to build something sustainable, because it's a tough time right now, like what do you think their mindset in their mindset should be with all of this stuff, the skill, the gear, the technology, like what are you telling the new guy that's trying to come into business? Absolutely, well, firstly, I've just got to tell you a story about will.i.am talks about AI like this. You've got, you go into a grocery store and there's two avocados and one of them says organic and one of them says GM. [57:26] And he said, it's a choice. you can take the organic one or you can get the one that's maybe been grown in a greenhouse with pesticides and whatever. It's your choice and the GM one is probably going to be a couple of dollars cheaper or whatever. It's the same thing like you're talking about with labeling with the AI. I'm most interested, I've just become a voting member on the Grammys and I'm interested to see how the Grammys are going to deal with this. fascinating to watch it on Ravel, you know, with Harvey Mason Jr. like how he's getting his head around like what is going on man because it's gonna be very interesting when it start when you get the heavyweights going on well I wrote this with a person it was just us two in a room or whatever it's gonna be an interesting sort of bite actually but getting back to your question getting back to your question what I'm saying to people And what I'm doing myself is I'm leaning into the thing that is the human aspect of playing my instrument and the human aspect of recording my instrument. [58:40] What is moving me when I put that microphone there, say, and like the compression, is that – does it move me? Like I'm leaning into that heavier than I've ever done before. Um, because I think that's what I genuinely feel that's people reacts to emotion and soul way beyond that, that the thing that AI is doing really, I, I, and I saw, I'm suggesting to people just leaning to the, just go deeper into the thing that you believe and, and, and, and I'm feeling. Yeah. Yeah. I know it's really a simple answer, but that's what I'm doing. [59:26] You know Charlie Hunter, the guitar player? Of course. He just moved there. Yeah. He's just moved to London. He's been up to my place and we're doing a couple of gigs. And it's very interesting being around a musician like that, because that's all he does. Yeah. dripping with soul and feel and heart and love and human emotion is like every time the guy whatever he does he walked into my studio and he goes oh you've got a pandeiro yeah and the next right and then the next thing it gives me like an hour lesson on pandeiro I mean he's just he's somewhere else Charlie yeah but Because for someone like that, he's just doing his thing and it's a real thing and it's still valid and people are still moved by it. [1:00:18] And he's not bothered. He seems to me not bothered one iota about AI. Yeah. Yeah. Because it's right. Yeah, he's a real one. It doesn't matter. It's not going to impact him. Yeah. That's zero threat. Yeah. Yeah, man. But if you're not very good and you can't tap into emotion when you play an instrument, I'll be a bit concerned. Yeah, exactly. Because it's going to be able to do your thing because you have to... The word is you've got to emote. You have to be able to sit at the drums or the piano or with your voice or with a guitar with saxophone and make an emotional sound from that thing that people feel and then you're good. [1:01:10] Then you then you are home and dry I feel because it's never gonna be you're never gonna be in trouble with AI because you can do something. Yeah. And if you can do it if you can do it like Charlie can when you instantly start playing when people just go, oh yeah, like it's instant. You know, Nate Smith instantly starts playing the drums and everyone's like, okay. Yeah, instantly, it connects with everybody in the room. And that's the thing that I'm trying to lean into it myself in my own humble way. Yeah, man. And you're right on course with every comment I've seen, I go and look up people to make sure I'm not tripping. [1:01:58] And I've still yet to see someone that's talking all this stuff that actually has contributed. So you're right, I talked to Charlie right before he went out there, man. And it was like, you know, I was like, it makes total sense, because he's absolutely a real one. And, you know, anybody like that, you know, everyone I know that really does this, no one's worried about it. People just trying to figure out ways they can implement it in the workflow or maybe help them scale. I took it to the extreme because I'm completely not worried about it on that side. [1:02:31] So I took it to the extreme and started developing a lot of stuff. You know, I got like 30 plugins, I got a DAW, all kind of stuff, because it doesn't have anything to do with when I sit behind the drum. I didn't forget anything. I didn't, it didn't change me as a musician. and I can still sit down and play with whatever we're doing. And it's like, I don't see why we have to make this crazy polarized thing. It's like, if you don't wanna use it, don't use it. But don't try to use it as an excuse for what you're not capable of doing. [1:03:04] And that's what I see a lot with this argument. You know what I mean? Yeah, well, you and I are in the same boat here. We're saying the same thing. Like if you're comfortable when you sit at your instrument and you can communicate with another musician in the room or most importantly, you can communicate to the, all of the audience and the people and the producer and the artist, if you can do that, then don't worry about it. Right, exactly, that's what matters. Yeah, and if anything, you could argue, what you're alluding to there is, is that AI actually will just hold you up. [1:03:48] It'll lift you up because you'll be so, the thing that you're doing will be so potent that it is so defined compared to what the AI thing is for me. You know? Yeah, I mean, you know. I mean, I'm talking about music creation here. Right, right. The stuff that you're talking about also, of course, is amazing where you're saying to it, I want you to take the room sound out of this vocal. I don't want you to dry it up. There's some background noise and I need it cleaning up or I'm a dead man. [1:04:21] And it can do it. And you go, fantastic. That stuff I think is, that's what I'm talking about. That is a gift and we should embrace it. Yeah, I was watching a commercial, a BMW commercial this morning. And I know that a lot of stuff that we're seeing is AI. People just don't know it because of, I'm kind of in this world a little bit. But it was interesting because, you know, it looks like a regular shot car commercial, but very fast on the bottom of the screen on one of the frames, it's like, oh, use with CGI, right? [1:04:55] Was a fancy word as saying AI. It wasn't what you're saying. You know, and people are, it's so funny because you get all these people saying all this stuff. First of all, you're complaining about it on a phone, which is absolutely using AI. I guarantee you use Uber. I guarantee you use Uber Eats or DoorDash or something to that effect. But yet, you have all this outrage. It's like, if you're gonna be outraged, stop using cell phones, stop anything that's digital, or you're a hypocrite, you know what I mean? Or even your cars, even your maps. [1:05:29] It's like, what are we talking about here? So I'm glad you're yet another person that always, I knew what the answer was gonna be, but I still wanted to get your take and it's the same thing. Anybody that's a contributor is not worried about it. You know, and you are such a contributor for so many years on so many different types of projects and records, man. 1:05:54 — SNOW PATROL, ROD STEWART & WHAT'S NEXT [1:05:54] You wanna talk about anything maybe that's coming up that you wanna plug or anything? Well, I've got this Charlie thing is a very exciting new thing. We've got a couple of gigs and maybe I'm hopeful that might turn into him coming up here and we do a bit more recording. I've got another, with the Ariel Posen, the Canadian guitar player, who we did a record with, we've got another album coming out. I'm going back in the studio pretty soon with Snow Patrol and doing their next record. The Rod Stewart record, which I've just completed, I'm very, very excited about that. [1:06:29] Rod, he's still doing it. His band was really fantastic. The engineer is definitely worth a shout who plays bass with Rod, Kurt Schneider. Wow. I don't know if you know him. He's an LA boy. That's amazing that he, you know, doing both of those. That's great. Right. Yeah. 1:06:52 — ROD STEWART'S GRAMMY-WINNING BASS PLAYER [1:06:52] Well, so, so initially, with the greatest respect, when I said, I said, who's who's producing it? And, and it was Rod's piano player, Kevin Savigar. And I was like, okay, so that's an interesting one that a guy in the band is producing the record right alongside rod rod was there every day and he was very he contributed very much to the record. And then I said, who's engineering it and they when they said the bass player, I'm like, okay. And I walked into it was we recorded it in London and it was at Ray Davies from The Kinks his studio, Konk, his Konk Studios. And Kurt played me some a couple of demos and I'm like, wow, they sound pretty good. And one of them was Victor Indrizzo on drums. Now that's, it sounded absolutely killer and he'd done it remotely. And the other demo was Aaron Sterling. [1:07:55] And I'm like, this is before I'd even set my drums up. So we set my drums up and then he starts putting the microphones up and I'm like, this dude seems to definitely know what he's doing. Anyway, we set it all up. I had a bit of a play, came back and sat down with him and I'd listened and it sounded really good. I was like, this is going to be okay. I said, man, that's a great sound you got there. We were chatting about Aaron Sterling and he said, oh yeah, I know Aaron. [1:08:26] He goes, we go back a little while. He goes, he said, because you know, I engineered John Mayer's last record. And I'm like, Oh, but it's so, so Kurt's like a Grammy award winning engineer that just happens to play bass for Rod Stewart. And so, yeah, that was, that was a result. But he's I know that most of the LA dudes that I know, know of him. It's, he's, he's, yeah, he's a dark horse man. and he's fantastic, I love it. And that record sounds Rod's sort of returned to his more sort of rock and roll. [1:09:05] He's leaning into the rock and roll thing a bit more. So that was a lot of fun, that record. It was like, I was channeling the Stones and Keith Moon and all sorts of stuff was coming out. It was a lot of fun. And we were just tracking together. Oh, nice, love it. Yeah, guitar, bass, drums, keyboards, and Rod was in the booth quite often. So that was another reason why it's quite cool because it's, and I was listening to it, some of the stuff that's already been mixed, and it's like, wow, that is definitely a take. [1:09:38] It's, so that's, it's quite fun. So I'm looking forward to that one. I hopefully that'll drop maybe early next year, I think that the Rod record. Yeah, but things are good, man. Everything's really, really cool. I've got the UK Drum Show coming up. Well, I've got a women weekend where people visit my studio and they stay for the long weekend and we talk about everything that we're talking about and music and groove and preamps and microphone placement and tuning and the whole thing. And then in a couple of weeks, I've got the UK Drum Show, which I'm very much looking forward to. [1:10:14] Yeah, there's always something going on, Trevor. I always try and keep myself busy and try and get better. Yeah, that's- Trying to get better at all the things that we're doing. You know? Yeah, daily, man. That's the goal, man, to hit it up daily. And you know, I don't want to sound like I'm so surprised that a bass player could be amazing doing something else because one of the greatest producers of our time is one of my best friends who's a bass player, and that's Mike Elizondo. So it's like, you know, bass players can do whatever they want, you know? [1:10:47] But at the end of the day, man, I just have to say, it's just massive thanks for you coming on, man, today. You know, man, it's just, I don't know why we didn't do it earlier, but it happened in time, it was supposed to happen. And you know, we could sit here forever, bro, but it's like, I know everybody's got these schedules. And please, when you're in LA, please hit me up, bro, for sure. I will, I will indeed Trev. And maybe we'll do it again when the robots start sort of coming down your street, with the glowing red eyes, we'll have another go on this AI chat. [1:11:25] Yeah man, cause who knows, all these things you're hearing it's just like, who knows what's getting ready to happen, man, you know. Yeah. 1:11:33 — ASH'S GEAR: GRETSCH, ZILDJIAN & VIC FIRTH [1:11:33] And oh, hold on. You know what? Hold on, one thing we have to do, I'm gonna ask you the gear question, even though you did mention, what gear are you rocking? I know we all know or some know, but some may not. So what gear are you rocking, bro? You mean which gear? Companies and you know, drum wise. Oh yeah. Yeah, all that. So I've been with Gretsch now for 10 years. Okay. And I'm loving that. So I've got four Broadkasters, which I really, really love. There's some new snare drums, but also of course, which is nice. [1:12:08] I can play the vintage gear, which I've got one side, modern kit one side, vintage gear the other side. So Gretsch drums is what I've been playing. And there's some exciting stuff coming in the pipeline with them actually, which I can't talk about too much, but it's going to be cool. Zildjian I've been with for 32 years. And the same deal with Zildjian, you know, obviously I've got new stuff, but also complete license to play 1950s Ks, it's all good. So, and Remo way over 10 years. Vic Firth, a couple of years ago, I was very honored to have my own stick. [1:12:49] me and spot got our own signature stick at the same time. So I'm with, I've been with Vic for quite a few years now. And DW, DW hardware. Beautiful. Yeah. And LP, in fact, I'm playing at the UK drum show. I'm playing on the Sunday. I'm playing drums, but on Saturday I'm doing, this LP have their own room. So I'm going to actually, I'm going to take a little rig up and show people how I track percussion to my drums. Yeah. So I'm going to put some just right, right in front of him. [1:13:22] I'm going to, and then I'm going to get someone up to play tambourine for three minutes and see how it is. Nice. Right. Uh, because it's, it's, it's not as easy as you think, is it? You know? Um, I mean, you just do that. Yeah. You just do that. Um, so in a minute, you got to keep that thing. Yeah, man. People don't know. It's not as easy as it seems. Exactly. So that's going to be fun. So that LP really, really cool. Protection racket are the cases that I use, the great Dino British. [1:14:00] That's a fantastic story. The way he was a surfer and he was making surf bags for surfboards down in Cornwall. And he's a drummer and he thought, Oh, I'll make, I'll make some drum cases out of the stuff that I'm making the surf bags out of. And here we are. you know, 35 years, 35 years later and Protection Racket are a very big, big company in the world. And then I've got, I've had those for so many years and never, they still all work fine. It's probably been 20 years. They all are like, no problem. I will tell him he'll be a happy man. And then of course the most interesting thing, gear wise really, Trev, the studio thing, I had no real thought that of course, like now it seems stupid that I didn't think about it. But you know, with the advent of social media and you get a bigger following, then you know, people like Universal Audio start getting interested in what you're doing and Neve now. So I've got relationships with Heritage Audio and with Neve and with Shure and with beyerdynamic and with Universal Audio. And that and also there's a the newest one is SonTronics, which is a British, a small British brand of microphones. So that world is expanding now that whole studio gear thing. It's like, wow, okay, of course. Yeah, it is, you know, but I never thought about that really, that would happen. And I'm very, I'm very thankful for those companies, you know, sharing an interesting what I'm doing here. Yeah. Well, especially you. [1:15:37] Hey, those are great shout out to Ezra. Oh, yeah. Everybody, you know, and next time you open your 1084 1073, you might see a folder that has my name on it in there. I will have a look now. It's fantastic. Well, more power to you. Yeah, man. I love it, bro. Thank you, man. Really appreciate. Yeah. All good. Thank you. Yep. So, um, you know what, what we'll do is, um, Yeah. But man, massive thanks again, man. And ladies and gentlemen, this has been the incredible Mr. Ash Soan. Just such a pleasure having you on the show, man. [1:16:13] All right everybody, well, another episode down. For those of you that haven't, make sure you enter The TrevBeats Show Drum Challenge. Also, all the information is available at trevbeatsshow.com. Also, all of our apps, everything is available trevbeatsmultimedia.com. And let's see what else we have to say. I think we've covered everything. So you know what it is. This is Trev, okay. I'm Trevor Lawrence Jr. We out, we out, we out It's The TrevBeats Show and we out It's The TrevBeats It's The TrevBeats Show and we out